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A post by Guido van Rossum removed for violating Python community guidelines

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Re: A post by Guido van Rossum removed for violating Python community guidelines

#201

Post by bun_terminator »

xigoi wrote: post #175
gaganyaan wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They probably mean the poem at the bottom here: https://www.python.org/downloads/release/python-3120/ Under "And now for something completely different"

Ah. That’s really inappropriate for a technical document.

The spicy bit is that this is the first release that contained such a political message. And also the first one that is managed by the guy who started the mess of this post, too! Not exactly sure if he's the one who put it in there, but it's one heck of a coincidence.

Re: A post by Guido van Rossum removed for violating Python community guidelines

#202

Post by zahlman »

krick wrote: post #94
zitterbewegung wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When Guido stopped being the sole leader (BDFL) he was replaced by the steering council which is elected and has the purpose of doing the following (Defined in PEP 13 which is the current governance model of Python. Right now Guido is a core developer at this time. See https://peps.python.org/pep-0013/#the-steering-council

That's pretty obvious. The question was, who are these people, specifically, and why they were chosen and given that much power. I mean, I can see the names, but while I don't have to be told who Tim Peters or Guido van Rossum are, I have no clue who these guys are and what their actual contributions are.

> The question was, who are these people, specifically, and why they were chosen and given that much power.

They are core developers elected by an internal process among the developers. See PEP 13 for details: https://peps.python.org/pep-0013/#the-steering-council

> I have no clue who these guys are and what their actual contributions are.

Barry Warsaw (https://barry.warsaw.us) is another of the "old guard" who can be pictured standing next to Peters and GvR fairly easily. He gained the title of "Friendly Language Uncle For Life" (FLUFL), and has previously been the project lead for Mailman and lead maintainer for Jython. He was the release manager for Python 2.2 (as far as I can tell, the first time this position existed), 2.6 and 3.0, and shared the role for 2.3. His name is all over 2.x-era process documentation. Prior to GvR's actual retirement in 2018, there was an April Fools' Day announcement of his resignation in 2009, authored by Barry Warsaw and Brett Cannon. This was accompanied by a hidden option (still available!) which changes the `!=` syntax to ``. Refs: https://stackoverflow.com/questions/4007289/ ; https://peps.python.org/pep-0401/ .

Emily Morehouse (https://emilyemorehouse.com/) was the PyCon co-chair for 2019 and chair for 2020 and 2021. She has done project management for Axios and mentoring for PyLadies (https://discuss.python.org/t/steering-council-nomination-emi...).

Gregory P. Smith has been a core dev since about 2003 and has notably worked on `hashlib` and `subprocess` (https://discuss.python.org/t/steering-council-nomination-gre...).

Pablo Galindo Salgado (https://github.com/pablogsal) was the release manager for 3.10 and 3.11, and Thomas Wouters was/is the release manager for 3.12 and 3.13. Wouters has also previously served as a PSF Board member and was a PSF founder (https://www.python.org/nominations/elections/2020-python-sof...).

Re: A post by Guido van Rossum removed for violating Python community guidelines

#203

Post by dekhn »

krick wrote: post #94
zitterbewegung wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When Guido stopped being the sole leader (BDFL) he was replaced by the steering council which is elected and has the purpose of doing the following (Defined in PEP 13 which is the current governance model of Python. Right now Guido is a core developer at this time. See https://peps.python.org/pep-0013/#the-steering-council

That's pretty obvious. The question was, who are these people, specifically, and why they were chosen and given that much power. I mean, I can see the names, but while I don't have to be told who Tim Peters or Guido van Rossum are, I have no clue who these guys are and what their actual contributions are.

Gregory P. Smith Emily Morehouse Barry Warsaw Thomas Wouter

I've worked with gps and twouter before at Google; they were two of the leaders of the python ecosystem. twouter is a highly technically skilled contributor- when I found a 2 bugs in the Python runtime, he was the person who helped me fix them (bug 1: RPC calls from C++ to Python delivered during interpreter shutdown caused crash, bug 2: importing the same library twice with two different names caused crash) upstream.

gps apparently is a core contributor to cpython but I he did mainly administrative work afaict when I was at Google. From what I can tell, gps is the primary instigator in this incident.

Barry Warsaw: was lead maintainer of jython, I think also involved in the guts of cpython for some time.

Emily Morehouse: I hadn't heard of her before but it looks like she is a core python developer: https://emilyemorehouse.com/blog/015-my-path-to-becoming-a-p... who implemented some key PEPs.

Re: A post by Guido van Rossum removed for violating Python community guidelines

#204

Post by bitcharmer »

holsta wrote: post #174
EvanAnderson wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm an outsider who only knows Guido van Rossum by way of interviews his writing. Assuming your quote is what the original text said (I don't disbelieve you-- but nobody can see it to confirm) why would this have violated community standards? Is there some rule about not mentioning "un-persons" or something? It's very confusing. Edit: Answering my own question. There appears to be a kerfuffle afoot. Apparently the St…

[flagged]

What does reverse racism mean?

Re: A post by Guido van Rossum removed for violating Python community guidelines

#205

Post by eadmund »

consteval wrote: post #188
Izkata wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That the people implying they were monsters were the actual monsters.

[flagged]

> For some people changing master -> main isn't a nothing burger, it's actively harmful.

I constantly have pain — years after the Summer of Floyd — from repos I follow which change the name of their master branch from ‘master’ to ‘main,’ which breaks all sorts of tooling, sometimes silently (my local copies stay on ‘master,’ and never get updates), sometimes noisily.

That switching is actively harmful.

> Some people genuinely love the name master and want it to stay and yes, that is weird.

I don’t particularly love it, but it is the correct name for the master version (as opposed to a local copy, or a remote copy, or a feature branch, or a custom branch, or whatever) of a repo.

Re: A post by Guido van Rossum removed for violating Python community guidelines

#206

Post by zahlman »

consteval wrote: post #186
srid wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unnecessary politics in certain tech spheres is still a norm. For example, here's GNOME the desktop being concerned about climate change: https://discourse.gnome.org/t/question-to-candidates-the-boa...

[flagged]

> We're all gonna stop using a tool because they offhand mentioned something we don't agree with?

No. Well, I'm not, anyway - despite my skin in the game (https://zahlman.github.io/politics/the-psf/2024/07/31/an-ope...). But I am going to offer harsh criticism of those who abuse their platforms.

This sort of thing is nothing new in Python circles. It notably led to Jack Diederich's resignation from the PSF in June 2020 (https://discuss.python.org/t/the-psf-should-be-less-politica...) and may have contributed to the mass exodus of core devs in November 2020.

> why is everyone acting like a baby? Just move on. Who cares. Python is a language, who gives a fuck

My understanding is that a higher standard of discourse is expected on HN.

Also, I rather suspect your tone would be different if you didn't happen to agree with the message. Please consider that such bias is not in keeping with the spirit of the free exchange of ideas or the core principles of open source.

> You're telling me y'all ACTUALLY found this webpage and scrolled through it organically?

Yes. This page is the official, primary means by which the Python team announces a new release of Python. That's kind of a big deal.

Re: A post by Guido van Rossum removed for violating Python community guidelines

#207

Post by hughesjj »

bigbones wrote: post #40

Seems like someone's been reading How To Have AWS Announce A Fork Of Your Project In 21 Days on the toilet

Amazon wouldn't even officially fund python development internally (thankfully Chris Rose is a gem along with others so most never noticed), and they don't care about this kind of drama

Re: A post by Guido van Rossum removed for violating Python community guidelines

#208

Post by zahlman »

threatofrain wrote: post #137
dilap wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They suspended Tim Peters? That is insane .

The Python steering committee also threw the kitchen sink of accusations at him. IMO it speaks to character when you throw arguments like an adversarial lawyer. Not the kind of person you want to be around for work or life.

To be clear, the accusations in question came from the Code of Conduct Work Group; the Steering Council simply "acted on their recommendations".

I don't expect any positive changes if said Work Group becomes directly responsible for such disciplinary actions.

Re: A post by Guido van Rossum removed for violating Python community guidelines

#209

Post by natosaichek »

dllthomas wrote: post #48
OutOfHere wrote: post #31

[flagged]

It's not just how much information you extract, but also what you do with that information. RCV, in the most common form of IRV, has a problem that I think is relevant. If we accept the truism that the appropriate compromise won't be anyone's first choice, then the very first thing IRV does is throw out any appropriate compromise, leaving it to make a decision between inappropriate options. I think we need to be more…

Rated voting methods are great, but more complicated than simple choices. Given how challenging it is to get people to just pick the thing they want in very simple situations, I would not be optimistic about their implementation.

Re: A post by Guido van Rossum removed for violating Python community guidelines

#210

Post by srid »

Lockal wrote: post #147
oblvious-earth wrote: post #2

The original text stated: > I don’t know much about voting systems, but I know someone who does. Unfortunately he’s currently banned. Maybe we can wait until his 3-month ban expires and ask him for advice? Currently, the text reads: > This post was flagged by the community and is temporarily hidden. Since it has been hidden for more than 24 hours, this suggests that a moderator action has marked it as permanently hid…

This post was unflagged few moments ago, also received 20 likes (from 7 to 27) for last hour.

Probably because it gained attention on HN?

The same cannot be said for in-numerous other acts of flagging and hiding. Almost all posts from Clay in this thread has been flagged and hidden; you can't even make sense of Guido's replies to him because of that.

https://discuss.python.org/t/approval-voting-vs-instant-runo...

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