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Launch HN: Airhart Aeronautics (YC S22) – A modern personal airplane

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201–210 of 632 posts

Re: Launch HN: Airhart Aeronautics (YC S22) – A modern personal airplane

#201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It may sound snobby - but I'm not super excited about the idea of lowering the barrier to entry for GA on a foundational skill basis. Like the light-sport rating, it encourages more people to be in the (already congested) airspace system who haven't really gained all the other skills necessary or experience to be there. I'm not a pilot, but I've always wanted to go down the path. In theory - this should be rather e…

we won't want to lower the bar in terms of the pilot's ability to stay safe. But we do want to lower the barrier to entry so that more people can learn to do it, do it safely, and enjoy all it's benefits.

The barrier to entry is not learning how to fly. That is the easiest thing for most people.

Re: Launch HN: Airhart Aeronautics (YC S22) – A modern personal airplane

#202

I was shocked when learning to fly how much GA tech was stuck in some weird pre-World War II era state. Everything seems so needlessly complicated. Even small aircraft cost so much that I couldn’t imagine a computer controlled system and fly by wire would be cost prohibitive. Even a new C172 is close to $400k at the low end, and anything you’d actually want to fly is much more. A few grand in electronics seems worth…

> It feels like the real problem in this industry is lack of competition. There’s a chicken and egg problem: planes are expensive because so few people buy them, but so few people buy them because they’re expensive.

Lack of competition is not the root cause. It's all the regulations. Certifying a new GA airplane takes a lot of time, and costs a fortune. This translates to high development costs, and certification costs, and ALSO is a huge barrier to entry for new companies, and a significant barrier for existing companies to develop new modern designs.

I could potentially muster enough resources to design and build an ultralight aircraft (that does not need any certifications), but a type-certified aircraft even as simple as a Cessna 152? Forget about it.

You could argue whether those certifications are worth it for safety, e.g. by comparing Canada's much more generous ultralight aircraft max weight allowance compared to US, or looking at the change in accident rates in European countries that recently deregulated ultralight aircraft, but whether it's worth it or not, regulation is the single most impactful market force driving the cost of GA aircraft.

Lack of competition is also sometimes directly enforced by the government. For example, several countries mandate the use of FLARM, a proprietary collision avoidance system for light aircraft. Governments gave this company a monopoly without requiring their protocol to be made interoperable, open source, and dis-encumbered from patents.

Re: Launch HN: Airhart Aeronautics (YC S22) – A modern personal airplane

#203
post #125
post #83

Instrument-rated pilot (and engineer) here. First - congrats on the launch! I think you're working on an interesting set of components that will prove useful to GA aircraft technology. Bringing fly-by-wire, and lowering the cost of maintenance/manufacturing are both great efforts. That being said, my personal view is that stick-and-rudder control is one of the less critical components to improving GA safety. Everythi…

Agreed! Learning how to fly alone is the easy part. The hard part is all the rest. Also, this is inconsistent: > large commercial airplane technology has developed to the point that the planes practically fly themselves > We think stick and rudder skills are definitely a necessity for airline pilots flying hundreds of people on board for the extremely rare cases where emergencies do happen and many people's lives are…

> What makes flying sexy is the nerdiness, the skills involved, not shiny control surfaces.

Yaesu, Kenwood, and Icom 2-meter transceivers are not more desirable than an iPhone, and an iPhone generates far more economic value. Yes, some of the "wonder of radio" is lost when communicating over modern cell networks.

Similarly, sexy, easy to use planes and the resulting influx of new pilots could result in an "eternal september" for the community. "Flying cars" sounds amazing to most, but they do represent a death of what aviation was before.

These objections are largely emotional... progress happens.

Re: Launch HN: Airhart Aeronautics (YC S22) – A modern personal airplane

#204

What are the environmental implications of transitioning people traveling by car/train to small planes? In addition to being louder and dispersing pollutants over a wider area, don't small planes generate significantly more GHG emissions than cars over the same number of miles? Also, given that planes are not nearly as easy to electrify as cars and trains (energy density is significantly lower in batteries than liqui…

Today, airplanes are not great when it comes to their environmental impacts. If we are successful in our bet that we can grow the GA market, we'll have the resources to invest into greener propulsion technology. That space is currently evolving quickly, with hybrid-electric, hydrogen, full electric and others all being explored. So it's in our plans to address that as well.

I didn't want to make a snarky, unabashadly NIMBY comment until I read this response. For every dollar you lower barrier to entry in aviation, I'm going to be calling my local government representatives to raise it back up by two with taxes and fees.

The solutions to environmental problems aren't to grow markets with technology we know is bad so we have the money to make it less bad. The solution is to make it so expensive for the average consumer that it's uneconomical to do the bad thing at all.

Re: Launch HN: Airhart Aeronautics (YC S22) – A modern personal airplane

#205
This reminds me of programming languages designed with an English-like syntax in the hope that people would be able to develop software without learning to code. It also reminds me a bit of the Ercoupe, an airplane designed in 1937 with the ailerons and rudders mechanically coupled so that pilots would have fewer controls to operate and reduced ability to put the airplane into uncoordinated flight.

Neither approach has remained popular into the modern era. Of course it also reminds me of Airbus, which has a similarly simplified fly-by-wire control system that abstracts away the details of controlling the aircraft under normal conditions. Airbus promised that system, introduced on the A320 would make planes uncrashable, which pilots promptly disproved on that aircraft's first passenger flight[0].

Helping people get pilot's licenses without learning to fly coordinated turns does not strike me as particularly useful, but there is no doubt room for improved avionics and planning software.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_France_Flight_296Q

Re: Launch HN: Airhart Aeronautics (YC S22) – A modern personal airplane

#206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Excellent points, it's really these other aspects that get pilots into trouble. For example it's crazy that most pilots are still taught to calculate W&B using printed charts and approximate takeoff performance. I think you could save more general aviation lives with a fairly minimal system. A gas gauge sensor that calculates whether you have enough fuel to get to your destination + reserve. Avionics where you input…

> For example it's crazy that most pilots are still taught to calculate W&B using printed charts and approximate takeoff performance. We're taught that so we know what we're doing. Then we open our iPhone app (EFB or electronic flightbag) and do it there. In fact, part of the reason we do it there is because most of them phone home to their maker and log that we did it. So if there's an accident people can know "well…

Stall speed is a misnomer.

Stalls occur due to exceeding the critical angle of attack and can happen at ANY speed.

Re: Launch HN: Airhart Aeronautics (YC S22) – A modern personal airplane

#207

What are the environmental implications of transitioning people traveling by car/train to small planes? In addition to being louder and dispersing pollutants over a wider area, don't small planes generate significantly more GHG emissions than cars over the same number of miles? Also, given that planes are not nearly as easy to electrify as cars and trains (energy density is significantly lower in batteries than liqui…

Hard to tell. I have a frequent route that takes me ~ 2 hours of flight (13 liters/hour, 26 liters in total) or ~ 10 hours to drive with around 50 liters of gas. Flying means burning 50% less gas. But for others there may be better driving, how to calculate that?

Re: Launch HN: Airhart Aeronautics (YC S22) – A modern personal airplane

#209
I love the idea & I love to fly but building and operating air planes is a shitty business.

Technology wise we could have fly by wire fully automated planes, vtol, and helicopters easily (at least in limited areas first). The problem is not tech it's regulation, insurance, backwards compatibility and scale.

Sadly scale is the killer. You would need a Toyota for airplanes but your market to sell is tiny. You just cannot spread your dev costs over huge volumes of planes. I have seen aero dynamic designs which are comparable to fuel efficient cars but travel at 200mph. But it's very expensive and risky to build a company around it.

What you might be able to break into is Garmins market but hard! Maybe new markets like electric planes or vtol.

I hope I am wrong and you are right. I wish you guys succeed bc GA aviation is stuck in 1970s.

Re: Launch HN: Airhart Aeronautics (YC S22) – A modern personal airplane

#210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

we won't want to lower the bar in terms of the pilot's ability to stay safe. But we do want to lower the barrier to entry so that more people can learn to do it, do it safely, and enjoy all it's benefits.

The barrier to entry is not learning how to fly. That is the easiest thing for most people.

One of the biggest barriers at this point is probably getting a medical. There are tons of perverse incentives there - getting one if you've ever been prescribed mental health meds, for instance, can be at best a ton of red tape.
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