Live data from Hacker News

Microsoft cutting crucial link to Gaza, Palestinians say

bbc.com

201–210 of 230 posts

Re: Microsoft cutting crucial link to Gaza, Palestinians say

#201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, are we going to ignore that more Palestinians has been killed till October last year, even without an official war declaration in Gaza and West Bank? There are more hostages including minors, taken by Israel, before and after the said incident.

This isn't a contest of volumes and it's a very false equivalency. Hamas attacked Israel knowing the cost in lives and chose to attack anyway because they don't value human life. Even that of their own people. Israel takes prisoners not hostages and has due process albeit flawed. Everyone arrested is arrested due to something they did. Not taken out of their home or a party. Not raped and murdered. These are not civi…

[flagged]

Re: Microsoft cutting crucial link to Gaza, Palestinians say

#202
post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

This is absolutely not true. Whatever else you many think of what's happening, this is just a distortion of reality. Hamas is an organized paramilitary of a semi-autonomous regino, that has spent twenty years digging a vast tunnel network and hiding weapons and ammunition in civilian homes. It is engaged in daily attacks against the IDF in Gaza, as they themselves show by posting videos of their firefights and attack…

>as they themselves show by posting videos of their firefights and attacks against the IDF.

Like ITF posting the looting Haza homes, wearing lingeries and destroying children' toys?

Could they post the destruction of Alshifa, the mass grave with elderly people, with their hands tied in front of the hospital? The spokesperson lying in front of the camera, saying the weeks in days are guard duty stamps?

And the Hamas, is that the same one, that the Israeli PM funded for weakening the Palestinian Authority?

Re: Microsoft cutting crucial link to Gaza, Palestinians say

#203
post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know about power and food since I have friends in the North who still don't have access.

How far is Israel expected to deliver the food? Right to everyone's door? A seige means the borders are closed. The current situation, for at least 6 months now is that Israel is letting food trucks through the border, more and more every day. A problem exists for that last mile inside Gaza where no one wants to distribute it because militants will straight up beat truck drivers with sticks to steal the trucks and th…

>Right to everyone's door?

There are not much of them doors left anyway.

>A seige means the borders are closed.

Yes, practically for close to two decades now. Sea, Air and Land.

Re: Microsoft cutting crucial link to Gaza, Palestinians say

#204
post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Me too, I would like to see the evidence, but alas the occupying power does not allow free press to be on the Gaza strip. I would just remind you that there is not just a famine, but a brutal genocide too, and Communications itself is under attack. Please give some leniency to the people who are bombed to the ground, killed and maimed, and using web trees to connect to the World, for not showing enough evidence of fa…

> alas the occupying power does not allow free press to be on the Gaza strip.

and yet day after day we hear the details of things that didn't even happen from hamas. you'd think if they had evidence they would use that.

Re: Microsoft cutting crucial link to Gaza, Palestinians say

#205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This isn't a contest of volumes and it's a very false equivalency. Hamas attacked Israel knowing the cost in lives and chose to attack anyway because they don't value human life. Even that of their own people. Israel takes prisoners not hostages and has due process albeit flawed. Everyone arrested is arrested due to something they did. Not taken out of their home or a party. Not raped and murdered. These are not civi…

[flagged]

[flagged]

Re: Microsoft cutting crucial link to Gaza, Palestinians say

#206
post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is absolutely not true. Whatever else you many think of what's happening, this is just a distortion of reality. Hamas is an organized paramilitary of a semi-autonomous regino, that has spent twenty years digging a vast tunnel network and hiding weapons and ammunition in civilian homes. It is engaged in daily attacks against the IDF in Gaza, as they themselves show by posting videos of their firefights and attack…

Yes, one notices there's been lots of shooting and bombing going on. The question is whether the current Israeli government rationally believes it will improve its overall security position in conducting the operation in the way it is doing (the usual intended outcome of a "war"). Or whether it has other goals in mind. As its numerous (quite nauseating) statements about the long-term fate it in has in mind for both t…

> The question is whether the current Israeli government rationally believes it will improve its overall security position in conducting the operation in the way it is doing (the usual intended outcome of a "war").

That's a fair question and criticism. I am one of the many Israelis furious at the government for exactly this reason - we believe Netanyahu, in particular, cares more about his own political survival, than about the actual security of Israel. And while I do think the current war is in some ways making Israel more secure (by weakening Hamas), it's also weakening Israel in some ways, and that's not even getting into the question of whether it's worth it "morally" speaking at this point (in my estimation, no).

It's still a war though. And let me push back and say that if you think most wars are fought to purely to improve security and not for other reasons, including political reasons, you're very mistaken.

> Or whether it has other goals in mind. As its numerous (quite nauseating) statements about the long-term fate it in has in mind for both the territory in question and the "animals" who inhabit it consistently indicate:

For sure some extremist Israelis have these other goals. They are luckily a small minority of Israelis, but they unfortunately wield outsized political power because the actual #1 goal of Netanyahu is just to remain in power, and they help him do that.

It is not the goal of the government nor of the majority of Israelis, who oppose this.

Also, while there have certainly been bad statements made towards Palestinians, especially in the aftermath of October 7th, it's not like any Israelis routinely go around calling Palestinians "animals", despite your implying it.

Look, your criticisms of the government are right IMO, and are shared by many Israelis, hence the numerous protests and calls for Netanyahu to resign.

That said, none of that means that your initial statement was correct; this is a war, not a massacre. The IDF isn't going around targeting Palestinian civilians, at least not in general (I'm sure many individual cases of wrongdoing have happened, sad to say). The IDF is targeting militants, and engaging in daily fights with militants, in which civilians get hurt, for many reasons, but this situation isn't very different than many other battles that have taken place in urban territory.

It's terrible, and maybe the war is not justified at this point (and you might think it was never justified, though I disagree with that). But it is a war, and saying otherwise is both wrong, and will make almost anyone on the "other side" of this issue refuse to engage with you.

Re: Microsoft cutting crucial link to Gaza, Palestinians say

#207

Some people forget that everyone is innocent until proven guilty.

Typical sentence of people that are guilty, just like those who pretend they should be able to hide information outside of the protective gaze of the glorious all-powerful elites who know better than thouh. What are you trying to hide, you seditious terrorist, hmm?

There is a symmetry, an equation if you would prefer. On the left hand side you have rights, on the right hand side you have duties.

    Rights = Duties
Your right of presumption of innocence is your duty to respect the presumption of innocence of others.

If you break this symmetry, now we can look at YOU. Why should we all respect YOUR presumption of innocence if you don't respect others?

If the response is some stereotype related crap I don't want to hear it.

Re: Microsoft cutting crucial link to Gaza, Palestinians say

#208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Power is still disabled in large swaths of gaza. Food is still scarce, with far fewer trucks let in versus pre invasion (which was 500 trucks a day), which was already calibrated according to Israeli officials to be "the lowest level possible consistent with avoiding a humanitarian crisis". https://www.cbsnews.com/news/wikileaks-israel-intentionally-...

Again, I already said these things. Are you looking for an argument? To say the last word? What's your point? Why link for an article from 2011? Power is out in specific areas because Hamas was in control of all civil offices and they're gone. So while the grid is back up, there's no engineers to connect the destroyed relays. The trucks are back in. The problem is on the other side of the fence https://www.npr.org/20…

I actually find it pretty odd that it isn't normal for religious people to be happy when a loved one dies. They are in a place of infinite happiness, that's awesome.

Re: Microsoft cutting crucial link to Gaza, Palestinians say

#209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Typical sentence of people that are guilty, just like those who pretend they should be able to hide information outside of the protective gaze of the glorious all-powerful elites who know better than thouh. What are you trying to hide, you seditious terrorist, hmm?

There is a symmetry, an equation if you would prefer. On the left hand side you have rights, on the right hand side you have duties. Rights = Duties Your right of presumption of innocence is your duty to respect the presumption of innocence of others. If you break this symmetry, now we can look at YOU. Why should we all respect YOUR presumption of innocence if you don't respect others? If the response is some stereot…

Given your comment and the negative note of its parent, I'm wondering if its sarcastic nature was missed or if people interacting with it did got it was intended to be a caricature but were pissed of by its actual critic of state mass surveillance and its ridiculous "think of the children" pedonazis scarecrow.

I don't buy duality as you present. Two points is just an invitation and opportunity to envision interpolations, extrapolate some spectral scales, wondering about additional dimensions, and fathom how it might interfere with the rest of our representations.

Rights and left are just two points. Intimate mind experiences can modulate interpolations in-between.

Duty and rights are all parts of the same object, it's just a matter of perspective that can make them appear to be separated consideration. Just like creation and constraints. Nothing exists without ontological restrictions that allows its form to happen.

Re: Microsoft cutting crucial link to Gaza, Palestinians say

#210
post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, one notices there's been lots of shooting and bombing going on. The question is whether the current Israeli government rationally believes it will improve its overall security position in conducting the operation in the way it is doing (the usual intended outcome of a "war"). Or whether it has other goals in mind. As its numerous (quite nauseating) statements about the long-term fate it in has in mind for both t…

> The question is whether the current Israeli government rationally believes it will improve its overall security position in conducting the operation in the way it is doing (the usual intended outcome of a "war"). That's a fair question and criticism. I am one of the many Israelis furious at the government for exactly this reason - we believe Netanyahu, in particular, cares more about his own political survival, tha…

These are fair points, and I appreciate the thoughtful, holistic response. We may disagree on interpretive aspects, particularly as to the motives of certain parties, and the extent to which the current operation differs from "war as usual" (whatever that may mean) or even other major IDF campaigns.

But beyond that I think we can spare ourselves further predictable iteration (which would only veer further from the original topic of the thread, and change nothing about what's happening on the ground in any case).

Post reply on HN