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Canada 'sleepwalking' into cashless society, consumer advocates warn

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Re: Canada 'sleepwalking' into cashless society, consumer advocates warn

#201

Post by catlikesshrimp »

stavros wrote: post #92
tom_ wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The whole point of a credit card is that you're not spending your own money!

Credit cards aren't very widespread here. When I say "credit" I mean "credit or debit", but it doesn't matter at all for this debate. If you don't exercise your right to pay cash, you'll lose it, and then it won't matter whose money it is, you won't be able to pay for anything without the bank letting you.

Some places I have visited here have a "no credit card" policy. They accept debit. Credit card transactions pay higher fees and are easier to chargeback

"No cards" is also spelled "cash only" ("Solo efectivo")

Re: Canada 'sleepwalking' into cashless society, consumer advocates warn

#202

Post by scosman »

bonestamp2 wrote: post #178
gary_0 wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The dual-network cards are Visa/Mastercard "debit" cards, which look like a credit card but sometimes don't work like one. I never had a problem with my dual-network card when physically visiting the States, but for whatever reason, some online payment systems (especially ones in Canada) have trouble with it. And vendors are clueless as to what the problem is when the debit CC number fails to go through. Just recentl…

Why do you prefer debit over credit? Aren't the consumer protection benefits greater with credit cards?

Fees are lower for the merchant. As a result it is less likely to see a 50c surcharge to use a card with debit. Places like convenience stores often only have debit.

Personally I use credit for anything major, for the protections.

People who have poor credit can use debit if they can’t get a credit card, or want to make a purchase above their limit.

Re: Canada 'sleepwalking' into cashless society, consumer advocates warn

#203

Post by standardUser »

I used to be vehemently opposed to going cashless (as a society) because then how would I buy illegal drugs? But crypto seems plenty mature to handle that problem now and I'm running out of arguments for why physical currency is essential.

Re: Canada 'sleepwalking' into cashless society, consumer advocates warn

#204

Post by lanstin »

bonestamp2 wrote: post #178
gary_0 wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The dual-network cards are Visa/Mastercard "debit" cards, which look like a credit card but sometimes don't work like one. I never had a problem with my dual-network card when physically visiting the States, but for whatever reason, some online payment systems (especially ones in Canada) have trouble with it. And vendors are clueless as to what the problem is when the debit CC number fails to go through. Just recentl…

Why do you prefer debit over credit? Aren't the consumer protection benefits greater with credit cards?

I am not Canadian but I am irresponsible and a debit card lets me just spend in a relatively stateless fashion. Check online account, if money can spend, otherwise not. I change the card numbers pretty often so not too worried about fraud. I use PayPal for recurring payments/subscriptions.

Re: Canada 'sleepwalking' into cashless society, consumer advocates warn

#205

Post by BJones12 »

rootusrootus wrote: post #121
AnotherGoodName wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s actually super easy to do but the public will hate it. Pass a law that credit card surcharges MUST be added onto the final price. That 2% cashback you get for using your Amex isn’t due to Amex generosity. That’s literally what retailers pay. Right now I will absolutely use my cc for anything I can. It’s literally cheaper than cash and users of cash subsidise all my purchases. The only way to fix this is to force…

That seems like it would get complicated fast. Doesn't cash have its own additional handling costs that don't apply to credit card users? I'm not sure it's as easy as saying cash users are subsidizing anyone else.

For businesses to deposit cash at RBC (the largest Canadian bank) here's an account that charges $2.50 per $1,000 (branch), $2.25 per $1,000 (ATM)

https://www.rbcroyalbank.com/business/accounts/flex-choice-b...

Which is ~0.25%. Presumably a cash register also has some amortization on it.

Re: Canada 'sleepwalking' into cashless society, consumer advocates warn

#206

Post by BJones12 »

standardUser wrote: post #203

I used to be vehemently opposed to going cashless (as a society) because then how would I buy illegal drugs? But crypto seems plenty mature to handle that problem now and I'm running out of arguments for why physical currency is essential.

Because, through intention or error, a government or bank can lock out your accounts, leaving you penniless to pay bills or buy food.

Re: Canada 'sleepwalking' into cashless society, consumer advocates warn

#207

Post by rexfarwell »

janice1999 wrote: post #6

Governments really need to break the Visa and Mastercard Duopoly. Not mentioned in this article, but certainly related, was the Canadian governments unprecedented step to freeze hundreds of bank accounts of protestors during COVID protests using their Emergencies Act. While I couldn't be more politically removed from the protestors, using a legislative power envisioned for war like conditions to personally ruin prote…

The MOU of the protestors was to overthrow the government. Seems like an appropriate response.

https://archive.org/details/convoymou2022/page/3/mode/2up

Re: Canada 'sleepwalking' into cashless society, consumer advocates warn

#208

Post by sofixa »

elforce002 wrote: post #150
sofixa wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If there's a guarantee that, within reason (by that I mean, if you're literally trafficking people or something of the like, that's not reasonable), you can spend your money, what's the issue?

What happened in Canada strongly indicates that a cashless society is as bad as it sounds. China did it and, well, we don't have to guess what happened next. Canada, a Western country with lots of "freedoms", did what it did because those truckers, etc... were a "threat" to "democracy". I advocate for every form of payment to be conducted without restrictions: cash, deposits, debit, credit, crypto, etc... That's true…

> Canada, a Western country with lots of "freedoms", did what it did because those truckers, etc... were a "threat" to "democracy".

Can you stop exaggerating for dramatic effect? You can agree with them all you want, but occupying public places for weeks in a highly disruptive normal is a threat, yes. Anywhere on the planet, try pulling the shit those people did (half of what they were protesting about didn't exist, and the other half was obviously misinformed nonsense fundamentally misunderstanding a pandemic; they were obviously fed, and quite publicly sponsored by, the American far-right nonsense politics), and you'll see what happens.

As members of society, we cannot condone a violent and disruptive occupation of public places for weeks on end. Even if we agree with the cause (and to be clear - nobody sane could agree with their cause).

Re: Canada 'sleepwalking' into cashless society, consumer advocates warn

#209

Post by derektank »

djhn wrote: post #183
brainwad wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right, but now there are more efficient systems (the aforementioned Square dongle). We usually welcome technological progress that reduces costs, why opppose it in this case? The colourful pieces of paper and specially squished lumps of metal have been obsoleted. The solution isn't to force people to keep using cash, it's to make an electronic money system that has the good properties cash has (issued and backed by t…

Why oppose? Privacy. Freedom. Democracy. Equality.

Adding regulatory burdens to voluntary transactions doesn't really seem to be in the spirit of expanding freedom to me.

There's certainly an argument to be made that the privacy benefits or the inclusionary benefits are worth the hit to people's economic freedom, but don't pretend there isn't a tradeoff here

Re: Canada 'sleepwalking' into cashless society, consumer advocates warn

#210

Post by freeone3000 »

nick_ wrote: post #75
lupusreal wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Sorry are you trying to imply that the way various levels of US governments responded to recent left-wing protests has some conspiratorial parallel to the way the Canadian federal government responded to a right wing protest? The city of Ottawa's law enforcement officers were ordered to remove the protesters weeks before the federal government stepped in. The cops basically just didn't do their job. The emergency act…

Perhaps the emergency act should have been invoked against the police.
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