Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Aphantasia: I can not picture things in my mind

theguardian.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

201–210 of 416 posts

Re: Aphantasia: I can not picture things in my mind

#201

Post by bombela »

canjobear wrote: post #152
auggierose wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The article uses the VVIQ test (Vividness of Visual Imagery Questionnaire), taken on the Internet, to select aphantasiac participants. I cannot take research like that seriously. > For example: imagine a triangle. What color is it? > For a true aphantasiac, this question is meaningless. If you are not an aphantasiac, how do you know what meaning this question has for one? I am pretty sure aphantasiacs can "imagine" a…

If I say "imagine a triangle" and ask you what color it is, why would it have a color if there is no image there? I didn't ask you to imagine a red triangle. Only a triangle. The only way it logically gets a color is if you are visualizing it.

In my mind there is an infinite void. No color per say, think of the void of space, without a single spec of dust.

This void is a 3D space. There is a general sense of up, down, left, right, front and back.

In this void I materialize a triangle. It is a wireframe. 3 lines, all the same length. No color, they are just lines.

By default the triangle is resting on one side, pointing up, and facing me. I can then rotate and move my mind "camera" around it while simultaneously rotating and moving the triangle as well.

The more complex the shapes, the more shapes, the harder it is to maintain coherency. I can close my eyes and concentrate to help.

I can assign colors if I wish to, but they are not really there visually. More like an extra information attached to the shape.

Re: Aphantasia: I can not picture things in my mind

#202

Post by markers »

isoprophlex wrote: post #196
markers wrote: post #191

I got aphantasia from Covid, apparently it's an extremely rare side effect - so rare I've only found a handful of people on the entire internet who've experienced it. So I happen to know how it is to live both with and without the ability to visualize, I used to be extremely good at visualizing. Most major impact (apart from the loss of ability to daydream) is that my memory is worse, as my memory was very much based…

That sounds incredibly sad and frustrating. I can't imagine what it's like to suddenly lose that ability, being so dependent on it. Indeed many of my childhood memories are mostly sequences of pictures, the emotional content kind of "floats" on the imagery. It must be very frustrating, being forced to reinvent how you experience your inner life and memories. Edit, after reading some more comments: are you musically i…

It sucks, but that's life - there are worse things and life is still plenty enjoyable. In addition, I lost my sense of smell/taste completely and that was much worse to be honest (but still, you learn to live without and focus on what's good). If I had to choose between the two, I'd choose being able to smell/taste any day. Funnily enough not because of food, but actually because of the added experience you get when walking in nature or other places - smell has so much to do with experiencing things, but you never consider it until it's gone. Luckily it came back, even though it's been 2.5 years now and it's still only 80% normal (but 80% is quite good!).

As you mention, the most sad part about it is actually the childhood memories, but I still have the memories of course, they're just a bit more "facts based" than re-living experiences.

Luckily, I didn't lose my inner ear or even inner monologue like in another reported case [0]. I do play instruments, so I guess I was/is musically inclined to some degree. I still have ability to imagine music exactly like I would hear it, unlike a friend with aphantasia who can't.

Another interesting detail is that I regained the ability before losing it again (Covid re-infection), and during this time of recovery I could gradually see grey, blurry images that got better and better. It's like the image generator in my head didn't have capacity to create full blown images, but only low res ones. Which makes me believe that in my case the "image generator" was damaged as I couldn't even dream in pictures, while for most people with aphantasia that's not the case, as they can dream normally.

On the bright side, I don't get horrible, lifelike images popping up in my head anytime I hear about something disturbing. Not that that was a big problem, but it's something you notice. It makes me believe that people with aphantasia might be better at coping with disturbing events, as they don't have to re-live the experience visually. But that's just a theory.

[0] https://www.businessinsider.com/covid-stopped-having-dreams-...

Re: Aphantasia: I can not picture things in my mind

#203

Post by true_djf »

Hm. But if people really see things in their mind like that, how come so many apparently struggle to draw a bicycle, even though they've both seen and used one? If I ask one of those people to picture a bicycle in their mind, what exactly do they see? Do they see their own distorted version of a bike?

When I "picture" something in my mind, I can't really see anything, it's more feelings and words and abstract ideas. But I have no problems drawing an imaginary bike.

https://road.cc/content/blog/90885-science-cycology-can-you-...

Re: Aphantasia: I can not picture things in my mind

#205

Post by jackjeff »

uclibc wrote: post #45
boricj wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you hear or imagine sounds in your head?

Not the GP, but I can. I can play back songs in my head quite vividly or remember and replay how different people sound like, when it's coupled with a memory.

Not the GP either I can’t do any of that.

Sound is like images for me. An abstract concept you can reason about later but only experience in the moment.

Re: Aphantasia: I can not picture things in my mind

#206

Post by jackjeff »

BigParm wrote: post #39
e38383 wrote: post #25

Every time I’m reading about Aphantasia, I’m confused again that people really see stuff in their head. I have basically the same as the person in the article. So, if you want to know anything, AMA. I’m also trying to respond to a few questions which are already asked.

Do you dream? Dreams are generally heavy on mental imagery.

Not OP. I don’t recall any dreams since childhood. If I had not experienced a few myself, I would have a hard time understanding what a dream even is. And my 10 or so dreams only had abstract images. Defo not like a movie or reality where you can “see” things, people, objects. I don’t recall much about them anyway except being slightly mildly freaked out at the time for experiencing something which was not “real”.

Re: Aphantasia: I can not picture things in my mind

#207

Post by SapporoChris »

zingerlio wrote: post #204

How do people with aphantasia draw/paint/design? I always thought you had to kind of visualize those artistic things in your mind before manifesting them on paper/screen?

For myself, drawing never required having it visualized in my mind. I knew what I wanted to draw and could put it on paper. However not without difficulty. Using a model, or image to reference certainly helped.

As a simple example. Do you picture the letters you are going to write before writing a note? I don't know the mechanic, but I can write notes without effort. In the same vein, simple objects like geometric shapes are very easy for me to draw, no visualization needed. I suspect it's the same for most.

However, I did give up on drawing because I recognized I couldn't visualize a scene and place it on paper easily. It felt like I was drawing with poor planning which resulted in lots of mistakes, corrections and ultimately frustration.

However, I'm not sure if I qualify as someone with true aphantasia or not. I can visualize things, but I can't hold them in my mind. I see it briefly, like a flash, but can't hold onto it. I've tried to practice holding an image in my mind without success.

Re: Aphantasia: I can not picture things in my mind

#208

Post by jackjeff »

albert_e wrote: post #176

Can people with Aphantasia still have visual dreams -- where imagery is more real and vivid and more involuntary than willed .... than what they can 'see' when awake and conscious and are trying to muster up an image on purpose with closed eyes ? I tried visualizing some images now -- and it seems harder than I expected, seems harder with eyes closed (makes eveyrthing feel too dark and low contrast). But I think my d…

I don’t dream.

When I was a child I remember dreams occurred but they did not contain any vivid representations of anything. Just abstract images. Nothing you could classify as vivid, let alone a representation of reality in any sense.

The whole concept that you can actually “see” something that is not real and happening in the moment is non sensical to me.

Vivid dreams are just mysterious to me as the minds eye.

Re: Aphantasia: I can not picture things in my mind

#209

Post by ossacip »

What about sexual fantasies? Can people with aphantasia imagine the other person in any manner? In the article, the writer claims she can’t even imagine her ex-boyfriend.

I can imagine anyone, anywhere, without even closing my eyes. In many situations, I know I shouldn’t do it, but I’ve had this ability since early childhood. It has not made me a sex-craving maniac, though; I’m quite stable.

Re: Aphantasia: I can not picture things in my mind

#210

Post by ownagefool »

madaxe_again wrote: post #41
e38383 wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do dream, but most of the time not with a visual representation. It’s more like reading a book. There are very few occasions when I wake up and really have the memory of an image. But this fades so fast that I’m not able to really describe the image. I retain the memory of having a picture in my head. And it’s boring most of the time, because it happens in the middle of a dream and it’s basically just the last fram…

> It’s more like reading a book. This analogy may be less communicative than you think, as for me, reading a book is like watching a movie - I don’t see the words on the page, I see what’s happening in the book.

I don't read very often because it's just words and therefore not very interesting unless it illicits emotion and / or for learning.
Post reply on HN