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How to get stuff repaired when the manufacturer don't wanna: take 'em to court

blog.simonrumble.com

201–210 of 324 posts

Re: How to get stuff repaired when the manufacturer don't wanna: take 'em to court

#201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're missing the fact that the Phoebus cartel fined members that sold lightbulbs lasting longer than 1,000 hours. Aftr reaching a stable equilibrium, it's not surprising that 1,000 hours remained the industry standard. It drove sales! [1] https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2022-05-04/cheeri...

The reason for this, as I understand it, is that it's super easy to make a lightbulb that lasts 30 years. But there are two main trade-offs that make it bad for consumers: 1. Stronger filaments that last longer will be a lot less efficient, so the consumer ends up using a lot more electricity. 2. The filament doesn't burn per-say, but actually evaporates. This is why it'll eventually break. But where does the evapora…

I really don't see this as a debunking of the idea that the cartel was set up primarily to increase profits among its members. The engineering tradeoffs make sense, but it doesn't follow that because of these tradeoffs, the companies manufacturing lightbulbs were compelled to set up an organization that fined its members for making bulbs that lasted too long. The tradeoffs explanation seems like a post-hoc justification for something that was clearly done with anti-competitive intent.

Ultimately which scenario makes the most sense: that these businesses went through the time and effort to set up this testing organization out of a desire to ensure they all made better products for consumers, or out of a realization that they could all stabilize their revenues if they all sold products that would need to be replaced on a regular basis?

This also strikes me as an area where consumer choice can be particularly effective: most of the attributes of a lightbulb aside from energy consumption are pretty tangible to the end user, and since they are fairly inexpensive and replaceable, the buyer is more able to evaluate them side by side than many other things. It makes total sense to me that the manufacturers would see this as a problem, and choose to limit consumer choice instead of competing to make better products.

Re: How to get stuff repaired when the manufacturer don't wanna: take 'em to court

#202
I have a Rainforest Automation Eagle 200 radio box that pairs with a PG&E meter to enable real time data egress. The onboard software is brittle and the device fails to boot up completely, though it is responsive to local network requests.

Rainforest Automation is uninterested in debugging it and is offering only a discount on replacement hardware. But this is likely a software problem (I suspect failed certificate rotation to connect to their backend) and I don't want to give them more money.

I live in California and the right to repair goes live next month. Anybody know how I can use that right to actually get a repair?

Re: How to get stuff repaired when the manufacturer don't wanna: take 'em to court

#203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doesn't the US allow "diversity" by allowing different states to pass laws that their residence find important? I'm pretty sure CA has some specific right to repair laws. Also, this (to me) is a strange use for the word diversity.

States and localities can pass their own laws but they can't remove the federal ones, and federal laws preempt state laws. Naturally large corporations then make a point to capture the federal regulators.

It can be slightly more complicated with things like CARB which has an explicit waiver in the Clean Air Act to enact its own standards and given how big it is it basically ends up setting de facto standards for the state (it’s one of the big complaints from Republican states).

A similar issue comes up around education although things are a bit more even there with Texas and Florida also using the size of their markets to set their version of education standards.

Re: How to get stuff repaired when the manufacturer don't wanna: take 'em to court

#204

The EU gets a lot of heat for many things (and rightfully so), but this is an area where it is actually doing wonders in favor of consumers. Here is the directive adopted by the EU Council to promote the repair of broken or defective goods, also known as the right-to-repair (or R2R) directive: " The directive adopted today enshrines a new right for consumers: the right to have defective products repaired in an easier…

It’s trivial for companies to avoid complying. Meta don’t, for instance. They sell their quest headsets throughout Europe, but offer no warranty or support in many European countries in which they sell them, which is illegal under the EU CRD. I foolishly bought one, knowing the risk - and it stopped working after a week, and that’s the end of the story - they refused to do a return or exchange, said I could ship it a…

> offer no warranty or support in many European countries in which they sell them

Do you mean that you can buy it from the manufacturer website and have it shipped directly to a country where it's not released officially? Or are you taking about third party retailers selling grey market units?

Re: How to get stuff repaired when the manufacturer don't wanna: take 'em to court

#205
post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My guess: These companies have an internal repair division that will try to sell it as "warranty repaired" later. Or, they sell it at a discount to a company that specialises in oven repairs. They will fix it, then resell it. My guess: Apple's devices are way harder to repair than your average oven or refrigerator.

They did at Kitchen Aid (American company) but only for higher prices goods. They'd refurbish stand mixers but not Stand mixers were solid metal so I'm guessing a decent portion of the cost was casing/housing At least in the U.S. this stuff tends to be called "manufacturer refurbished"

I expect the cost of the cast, cleaned up and painted metal parts is a small fraction vs stuff like assembly and overhead. The raw materials aren't that expensive and they have enough sales to use high volume processes.

Re: How to get stuff repaired when the manufacturer don't wanna: take 'em to court

#206
It depends a lot of how much expensive is the court on your jurisdiction. If you live in a place with some kind of small claims court, where you don't need to hire a lawyer, yes. If not, your only hope is by pooling with other victims in a class action, in the jurisdiction where this exists.

Those companies hire a lot of lawyers, have extensive data on customer behavior, court costs and generally know that most people don't have the time and/or the money to sue, and will find that it is more economical for them to just forget the matter and buy a brand new item.

Re: How to get stuff repaired when the manufacturer don't wanna: take 'em to court

#207
I went around and around in circles with the Electrolux call centre worker. "So you think an oven should only last for two years?"

To what end? Annoy the people who are responsible for your predicament. Don't take it out on call center workers.

Re: How to get stuff repaired when the manufacturer don't wanna: take 'em to court

#208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The reason for this, as I understand it, is that it's super easy to make a lightbulb that lasts 30 years. But there are two main trade-offs that make it bad for consumers: 1. Stronger filaments that last longer will be a lot less efficient, so the consumer ends up using a lot more electricity. 2. The filament doesn't burn per-say, but actually evaporates. This is why it'll eventually break. But where does the evapora…

I really don't see this as a debunking of the idea that the cartel was set up primarily to increase profits among its members. The engineering tradeoffs make sense, but it doesn't follow that because of these tradeoffs, the companies manufacturing lightbulbs were compelled to set up an organization that fined its members for making bulbs that lasted too long. The tradeoffs explanation seems like a post-hoc justificat…

[deleted]

Re: How to get stuff repaired when the manufacturer don't wanna: take 'em to court

#209
post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It wasn't as simple as them wanting to make more money: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zb7Bs98KmnY Key points from an AI summary: - Incandescent bulbs had to balance factors like light output, efficiency, and lifespan - hotter filaments produced brighter, whiter light but reduced bulb lifespan. - Longer-lasting bulbs were less efficient and produced dimmer, yellower light, so they were not simply "better" products b…

This sounds like classic corporate bamboozlery. Find some real trade off that actually exists and then exaggerate its importance or pretend that no other solutions can be found when in fact they don't want solutions because the problem is profitable. Undoubtedly there are some alternate materials you could make a light bulb out of that present a trade off between longevity and efficiency. But there will also be mater…

I call this the "Prager-U law":

For every issue created by cartels or monopolies, there will be at least one "Akschually..." competitive explanation from libertarians that will either give a completely benign explanation of why this is actually good for your or blame the government/regulations for the issue.

Those explanations will become memes and every single time the subject is discussed they will be brandished by the faithful as axiomatic truths in ad nauseam fashion.

Re: How to get stuff repaired when the manufacturer don't wanna: take 'em to court

#210
post #207

I went around and around in circles with the Electrolux call centre worker. "So you think an oven should only last for two years?" To what end? Annoy the people who are responsible for your predicament. Don't take it out on call center workers.

> To what end?

The more time you spend with the call center, the more it costs the parent company. They don't like long calls.

If your call lasts long enough, it will get reviewed by a manager. Your class of complaint will end up on a tally.

Enough of these, and someone does something.

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