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Lynn Conway has died

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Re: Lynn Conway has died

#201

How life plays things out... I was told earlier today that my best friend in this world has died. We haven't talked for the past 4-5 days (we usually catch up on the weekends - but this past weekend he had a packed concert-going-schedule - we live in different countries so I couldn't join). What sucks the most is that we use(d) Signal, and we have autodestruct every 2 days so apart from some really old emails, I got…

To lose a friend like that sucks. I'm sorry for your loss.

Re: Lynn Conway has died

#202
post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anybody who conflates human rights as "politics" are someone I simply cannot respect A persons right to exist is not political (This isn't a dig at OP but it's worth restating)

> A persons right to exist is not political I don't think anyone disagrees with that, I think the disagreement comes from the way that activists insist that the best solution for treating [gender dysphoria, etc] is to "socially and heavy handedly force everyone to complete the illusion by treating transgender individuals as indistinguishable from their biological counterparts in every way". That's not the only soluti…

The sports claim still deserves a lot of research. People seem to continue to parrot this "impossible" view point but it really doesn't seem to be the reality. Instead organizations get pressured into making choices based on political views rather than data.

For an example of results see https://bjsm.bmj.com/content/58/11/586. A lot of the papers I see trying to support the opposing views try to use data of cis men which have not undergone hormone therapy to stand-in for trans women as if there was no difference but again it's quite apparent that this is not the case.

For many other areas, often people will use one incident to collectively label an entire group as deviant. This happened the same way with gay rights over the years and I've got many friends who got labelled all sorts of things because of it. As far as that's concerned, people love to arm-chair what is and isn't an effective course. None of these things are new, just American, or ignoring biological factors but it seems like those who would like to restrict acceptance of transgender people like to paint it as such.

Many of my friends have taught me a lot just by being bold enough to be seen as themselves. I don't think it's actually unreasonable to extend the benefit of the doubt to how trans people choose to affirm themselves.

Re: Lynn Conway has died

#205
post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It really doesn't help that the Wikipedia page doesn't currently appear to state the former name anywhere, like it often does for other people (like celebrities) who legally change their names at some point in their lives.

she had to go to significant pains to conceal her former name because it revealed her former sex, and trans women are at significant risk of getting lynched, even more so 50 years ago

Obviously homicides are bad, and life isn't yet a bed of roses for the trans community but ... as far as I know the trans homicide rate in the USA is lower than the cis one, unless you make strong underreporting assumptions [1]?

[1] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5551594/

Re: Lynn Conway has died

#206
post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think an important distinction people are looking for is: It's not the mere existence of a person that's an issue, but rather the coercive, punishing activism that takes place around a false idea that human rights are at risk, while these personal choices are simultaneously being celebrated by nearly every government institution and major corporation in existence. The same activism requires full acceptance by paren…

[flagged]

> The trans activists don't want that. Equal treatment and tolerance isn't enough for them, they demand dominance above all else.

Equal treatment and tolerance.. Ever since I started transitioning, people have treated me much worse, and I live in a so called liberal city. My pharmacist looks at me like I'm a freak. I've had slurs thrown at me several times while I'm just out minding my business. Half my family wont even... I don't know what parallel universe you live in where people are treated like this equally..

Where do you find all this time to hate on a group you don't even remotely understand? I'm happier than I've ever been and it seems like all of yall are making it your business to make that as miserable as possible.

Re: Lynn Conway has died

#207
post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think an important distinction people are looking for is: It's not the mere existence of a person that's an issue, but rather the coercive, punishing activism that takes place around a false idea that human rights are at risk, while these personal choices are simultaneously being celebrated by nearly every government institution and major corporation in existence. The same activism requires full acceptance by paren…

[flagged]

> Like when we said we want to get married, we made the point that this doesn't affect in any way the marriage that heterosexual people have, because the rights are actually the same.

> The trans activists don't want that. Equal treatment and tolerance isn't enough for them, they demand dominance above all else.

Gay rights opponents said the same about you. A gay man and a straight man had the same right to marry a woman. You denied it was equal. And a separate but mostly equal status wasn't enough for you. You demanded they call it marriage.

Re: Lynn Conway has died

#208
post #101

> When nearing retirement, Conway learned that the story of her early work at IBM might soon be revealed through the investigations of Mark Smotherman that were being prepared for a 2001 publication That kind of makes it sound like Smotherman was poking around trying to find Conway's secrets. What was actually happening is that he was trying to research an early IBM supercomputer project, but was not having much luck…

Thank you for sharing those details, I didn't know that. I learned and grew so much by reading Lynn's autobiography, but there's so much in there and it's so deep and personal, that it's hard to get my head around how amazing and difficult a life she had, and details like that help. I was researching some of the names that Alan Kay mentioned in his classic paper about the history of Smalltalk and his 1993 interview w…

Without wishing to categorize all of these important woman into the same story, another key trans figure in early personal computing is Sophie Wilson[1], who co-designed the ARM instruction set (and, as important for many, designed the OS for the BBC Microcomputer, including the font).

[1] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sophie_Wilson

Re: Lynn Conway has died

#209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I appreciate her making the effort to tell her story. I struggle sometimes to understand what it means when people say they feel born in the wrong gender. They way she describes it - not just about wanting to do 'girl' things but wanting to be soft and round and feminine - is eye-opening for me.

I read around reddit of experiences of people who wore VR headsets and played a character of the other gender. The NPCs treated them as such, but they themselves experienced gender incongruence. Their internal identity was at mismatch with how the NPCs treated them, and that helped them understand what gender dysphoria means.

Can you link to the post about that? Because I’m guessing there’s a selection effect where only those who had profound experiences commented. I’ve done similar things in VR and found it wasn’t any different than when I had a robot body or a cartoon carrot body. Yes the new body is strange and interesting in some ways, but on an emotional level it’s like driving a different car.

Re: Lynn Conway has died

#210
post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

> The trans activists don't want that. Equal treatment and tolerance isn't enough for them, they demand dominance above all else. Equal treatment and tolerance.. Ever since I started transitioning, people have treated me much worse, and I live in a so called liberal city. My pharmacist looks at me like I'm a freak. I've had slurs thrown at me several times while I'm just out minding my business. Half my family wont e…

Outside of calling it hate, why do you think people even in the most "allied" places respond to you in that way? Do you think perhaps they're afraid they may be helping an activist who may deem their services unacceptable? The track record has it that in these situations, service providers are at a major disadvantage, if anything remotely goes wrong during their interactions.

If activists belonging to protected classes are creating such enormous fear, do you feel misrepresented by them? What are you willing to do to help remove that fear? Do you think it creates an unfair imbalance?

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