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AMD Unveils Ryzen 9000 CPUs for Desktop, Zen 5

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Re: AMD Unveils Ryzen 9000 CPUs for Desktop, Zen 5

#201

Post by fourfour3 »

mavhc wrote: post #185
fourfour3 wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly this. I want plot/character driven games like RPGs to be a curated & carefully designed, plotted, and paced experience. I want speech & narrative to be scripted! It means someone sat down and thought about the experience it produces for the player. It means a real voice actor has performed it, putting the right emotion and pacing into the line. I don't want AI generated stilted dialogue, uncanny valley speech…

You want your NPCs to be limited in their conversations, to only follow a set few paths, if you think of a way to play the game that's not been anticipated years ago, you don't want that to be possible

Yes - I want to maintain quality, even at the expense of flexibility. I would rather there were 1, 2 or 3 high quality paths through a RPG style game or quest than hundreds, thousands, or infinite ones that are 'meh'.

(edited to expand)

Re: AMD Unveils Ryzen 9000 CPUs for Desktop, Zen 5

#202

Post by aurareturn »

KingOfCoders wrote: post #173
aurareturn wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ryzen doesn't even lead in MT on laptops. With M4, they're likely to fall even farther behind. M4 Pro/Max is likely to arrive in Fall. AMD's Strix Point doesn't seem to have a release date.

I like what you're doing! "M4 Pro/Max is likely to arrive in Fall." (no release date) "AMD's Strix Point doesn't seem to have a release date." (no release date)

My point is that Strix Point and M4 Pro/Max will likely release at around the same time based on reports and historical trends.

M4 is already out. We know Zen5's performance. Therefore, we can conclude that the gap between M4 vs Zen5 is higher than M3 vs Zen4.

You seem to be very sensitive when it comes with AMD.

Re: AMD Unveils Ryzen 9000 CPUs for Desktop, Zen 5

#203

Post by Night_Thastus »

alberth wrote: post #158

> TSMC N4 Question: Am I understanding this correctly that AMD will be using a node size from TSMC that’s 2-years old, but in a way it’s kind of older. Because N4 was like a “N5+” (and the current gen is “N3+”). EDIT: why the downvotes for a question?

Yes, AMD is not using the leading-edge node. The older node is cheaper/has better yield and more importantly has much larger supply than N3, which Apple has likely completely devoured.

I am personally very curious how it compares vs Intel's 15th gen, which is rumored to be on Intel 20 process.

Re: AMD Unveils Ryzen 9000 CPUs for Desktop, Zen 5

#204

Post by antisthenes »

michaelt wrote: post #189
antisthenes wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it used to be that software got more and more featureful/bloated and you needed a new computer every 3-5 years just to keep up. I'm sorry, "used to be" ? 90% of the last decade of hardware advancement was eaten up by shoddy bloated software, where we now have UI lag on the order of seconds, 8GB+ of memory used all the time by god knows what and a few browser tabs and 1 core always peaking in util (again, doing god…

I don't dispute that software is currently bloated - I'm just saying the rate of increase of bloat is now much reduced. Taking Steam's hardware survey as an example, from 2004 [1] to 2014 [2] RAM increased from 512 MB to 8 GB. From 2014 to 2024 [3] RAM increased from 8 GB to 16 GB. Software has bloated by 2x in a decade. But in the preceding decade, it bloated by 16x so keeping it down to a mere 2x is quite restraine…

> I'm just saying the rate of increase of bloat is now much reduced.

The rate of increase of bloat is now reduced, because hardware advancements rate of increase is also now reduced.

The bloat takes up all the hardware advancements, so of course they'll just be in line with each other.

Re: AMD Unveils Ryzen 9000 CPUs for Desktop, Zen 5

#205

Post by dzaima »

hajile wrote: post #196
buildbot wrote: post #26

AVX512 in a single cycle vs 2 cycles is big if the clock speed can be maintained at all near 5GHz. Also doubling of L1 cache bandwidth is interesting! Possibly, needed to actually feed an AVX512 rich instruction stream I guess.

Does Zen5 do FP math in a single cycle?

Almost certainly Zen 5 won't have single-cycle FP latency (I haven't heard of anything doing such even for scalar at modern clock rates (though maybe that does exist somewhere); AMD, Intel, and Apple all currently have 3- or 4-cycle latency). And Zen 4 already has a throughput of 2 FP ops/cycle for up to 256-bit arguments.

The thing discussed is that Zen 4 does 512-bit SIMD ops via splitting them into two 256-bit ones, whereas Zen 5 supposedly will have hardware doing all 512 bits at a time.

Re: AMD Unveils Ryzen 9000 CPUs for Desktop, Zen 5

#206

Post by tempnow987 »

adrian_b wrote: post #56
buildbot wrote: post #26

AVX512 in a single cycle vs 2 cycles is big if the clock speed can be maintained at all near 5GHz. Also doubling of L1 cache bandwidth is interesting! Possibly, needed to actually feed an AVX512 rich instruction stream I guess.

For most instructions, both Intel and AMD CPUs with AVX-512 support are able to do two 512-bit instructions per clock cycle. There is no difference between Intel and AMD Zen 4 for most 512-bit AVX-512 instructions. I expect that this will remain true for Zen 5 and the next Intel CPUs. The only important differences in throughput between Intel and AMD were for the 512-bit load and store instructions from the L1 cache…

The difference is intel chips that support AVX-512 run $1,300 - $11,000 with MUCH higher total system costs whereas AMD actually DOES support AVX-512 on all it's chips and you can get AVX-512 for dirt cheap. The whole intel instruction support story feels garbage here. Weren't they the ones to introduce this whole 512 thing in the first place?

Re: AMD Unveils Ryzen 9000 CPUs for Desktop, Zen 5

#207

Post by bloaf »

api wrote: post #153
buildbot wrote: post #26

AVX512 in a single cycle vs 2 cycles is big if the clock speed can be maintained at all near 5GHz. Also doubling of L1 cache bandwidth is interesting! Possibly, needed to actually feed an AVX512 rich instruction stream I guess.

At what point do these become competitive with GPUs for AI cost wise if GPUs retain their nutty price premium?

I’ve been running some LLMs on my 5600x and 5700g cpus, and the performance is… ok but not great. Token generation is about “reading out loud” pace for the 7&13 B models. I also encounter occasional system crashes that I haven’t diagnosed yet, possibly due to high RAM utilization, but also possibly just power/thermal management issues.

A 50% speed boost would probably make the CPU option a lot more viable for home chatbot, just due to how easy it is to make a system with 128gb RAM vs 128gb VRAM.

I personally am going to experiment with the 48gb modules in the not too distant future.

Re: AMD Unveils Ryzen 9000 CPUs for Desktop, Zen 5

#208

Post by hajile »

KingOfCoders wrote: post #14
aurareturn wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's because x86 chips are no longer leading in the client. ARM chips are. Specifically, Apple chips. Though Qualcomm has huge potential leapfrog AMD/Intel chips in a few generations too.

[If you're a laptop user, scroll down the thread for laptop Rust compile times, M3 Pro looks great] You're misguided. Apple has excellent Notebook CPUs. Apple has great IPC. But AMD and Intel have easily faster CPUs. https://opendata.blender.org/benchmarks/query/?compute_type=... Blender Benchmark AMD Ryzen 9 7950X (16 core) 560.8 Apple M2 Ultra (24 cores) 501.82 Apple M3 Max (12 cores) 408.27 Apple M3 Pro 226.46 App…

There's something wrong with your M3 Max stuff. I believe it comes in 14 and 16-core variants while the M3 Pro comes in 11 and 12-core variants.

In any case, M3 Max uses less than 55w of power in CPU-only workloads while a desktop 7950x peaked out at 332w of power according to Guru3D (without an OC).

The fact that M2 Ultra hits so close while peaking out at only around 100w of CPU power is pretty crazy (M2 Ultra doesn't even hit 300w with all CPU and GPU cores maxed out).

Re: AMD Unveils Ryzen 9000 CPUs for Desktop, Zen 5

#209

Post by ComputerGuru »

paulmd wrote: post #61
lmz wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's usually x16/x4/x4 for GPU/M.2/Chipset. You can check the diagrams from the current x670 boards for info.

Siena would make a very practical HEDT socket - it's basically half of a bergamo, 6ch DDR5/96x pcie 5.0. It's sort of an unfortunate artifact of the way server platforms have gone that HEDT has fizzled out, they're mostly just too big and it isn't that practical to fit into commodity form-factors anymore, etc. a bigass socket sp3 and 8ch was already quite big, now it's 12ch for SP5 and you have a slightly smaller one…

Very well said. It feels like we have all this amazing tech that could open the door to so many creative possibilities but no one is interested in exploring it.

Before, we had so little but it was all available to utilize to the fullest extent. Now we live in a world of excess but it’s almost a walled garden.

Re: AMD Unveils Ryzen 9000 CPUs for Desktop, Zen 5

#210

Post by hajile »

KingOfCoders wrote: post #141
aurareturn wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Single thread: M3 Max: 3898 7950x: 2951 The ST advantage of Apple Silicon is real. 7950x does do better in highly parallel tasks. To me, Apple Silicon is clearly leading clients over AMD/Intel. Hence, my original reason for why AMD's announcement isn't "exciting". Because Apple Silicon is so far ahead in client. Of course, AMD can crank up the core via Epyc/Threadripper and Apple has no answer. For that, you'd need t…

Yes, and is great if you are a gamer / have software that doesn't multi-core.

Or if you don't want to blow out the power bill.

A 7950x system at IDLE uses 50% more power than an M3 Max going all-out on a CPU workload.

https://www.guru3d.com/review/amd-ryzen-9-7950x-review/page-...

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