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ICJ orders Israel to stop military operation in Rafah

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Re: ICJ orders Israel to stop military operation in Rafah

#201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve seen you use the word Nakba alot when describing events other then the Nakba. For example a counter-Nakba to describe the Jewish exodus from Middle Eastern and North African countries which followed Israel’s unilateral deceleration of independence. I don’t think this is fair, nor helpful. It is kind of like saying that the ongoing Gaza Genocide is another Holocaust. The Nakba is a unique historic event, by calli…

I respectfully disagree with you about this, and don't see the distinction you're trying to make. I am, in particular, responding to a comment --- from a commenter you agree with generally --- who himself referred to the Nakba as ongoing. Since this is just a rhetorical point, I don't think it's much worth arguing. I could come back at you with the Holocaust comparison, but what do we get out of that? So, I'm going t…

When I hear people describing the Nakba as ongoing, I generally take that as to mean that the practices and policies of the Nakba have never been reversed, that the expulsion orders are still in effect, the refugees are still as such, partitions, occupation, and land grabs are still ongoing and expanding, the right of return has never been granted.

I think this is valid because the same government entity keeps these practices and policies onto the same victims. There is also a distinction to be made on the original event which we call The Nakba and the ongoing policies which followed. It is kind of like saying that the Korean War never ended. We have this original event, and then we have the aftermath which is still unresolved (not making a comparison though granting the right of return to displaced Palestinian is a million times less complicated than the Korean reunification).

I also hear people talking about the Gaza Genocide as a second Nakba. I also think this is valid (although The Gaza Genocide is a descriptive enough name IMO) since it mirrors the original event in scope and horrors, in policies. This would be akin to calling a second world war following The Great War World War II.

The Palestinian exodus from Kuwait, or the Syrian reign of terror against Palestinians are, however, not a direct followup or a continuation by the same entity of the same practices and policies of the original Nakba.

At most I can understand the use of the word Counter-Nakba as the Jewish hostile policies of e.g. Iraq were a direct response to the original Nakba. However the scale and horrors of that policy were nowhere near that of the original Nakba (even though the scale of the results [somewhat] did). And the practices and policies of Muslim majority countries did not mirror those of Israel during the Nakba, quite the contrary.

Re: ICJ orders Israel to stop military operation in Rafah

#202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I respectfully disagree with you about this, and don't see the distinction you're trying to make. I am, in particular, responding to a comment --- from a commenter you agree with generally --- who himself referred to the Nakba as ongoing. Since this is just a rhetorical point, I don't think it's much worth arguing. I could come back at you with the Holocaust comparison, but what do we get out of that? So, I'm going t…

When I hear people describing the Nakba as ongoing, I generally take that as to mean that the practices and policies of the Nakba have never been reversed, that the expulsion orders are still in effect, the refugees are still as such, partitions, occupation, and land grabs are still ongoing and expanding, the right of return has never been granted. I think this is valid because the same government entity keeps these…

That's fine, we just disagree about this semantic point.

Re: ICJ orders Israel to stop military operation in Rafah

#203
post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The circumstances of the catholic population in Northern Ireland was also significantly less extreme and dire. So if you want compare the scale of it then you also need to take that in to account. However, the more important issue is not to get distracted by these sort of things. We can tit-for-tat this endlessly and never get anywhere, and the only way to solve this is to move beyond that. That's what they did in NI…

> Hamas is ... right to protest the treatment of Palestinians. The reality is much more nuanced and quite frankly contradictory to this simplistic viewpoint. What are Hamas' goals - some kind of peaceful solution or the violent destruction of Israel and expulsion of most Jews from the area? I tend to say the latter. Also, calling what Hamas did on October 7th 'protest' seems weird to me. It committed a massacre and k…

Yeah, that's probably why the GP didn't say "Hamas is right to commit terrorist acts", but "... is right to protest the treatment of Palestinians". Which, like, are you saying they're wrong on that? Because if you are, it's you who are. Wrong, that is.
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