Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Does the American Diabetes Association work for patients or companies?

theguardian.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

201–210 of 212 posts

Re: Does the American Diabetes Association work for patients or companies?

#201

Post by renewiltord »

cempaka wrote: post #42
renewiltord wrote: post #10

Classic principal-agent problem. It's why you can't usually trust experts who aren't aligned with you. One way is skin in the game. But I suppose "if you aren't paying, you're not the customer" applies as well to nutrition and medicine as it does to free webmail.

In light of this news, how should we reevaluate some of the recent admonishments to "trust the experts" and "don't do your own research"?

I trust my ability to perform research. For those who don't, they should probably just go along with whomever they trust.

Re: Does the American Diabetes Association work for patients or companies?

#202

Post by david-gpu »

UncleSlacky wrote: post #196
david-gpu wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Consuming fewer calories, especially fewer carbohydrates, will help lower your blood insulin, which is the necessary condition that allows adipose tissue to finally release its excess stored energy. Even though calorie restriction works great in lab rats as the researcher can control what the rat eats and the rat can't do anything about it regardless of how hungry it becomes, it's not that simple with humans, particu…

Calorie restriction under the Newcastle Protocol is only required for between 8-12 weeks, typically once you've lost around 15kg on average. Afterwards, it's a matter of maintaining the weight loss through (improved) diet and exercise.

> Afterwards, it's a matter of maintaining the weight loss through (improved) diet and exercise.

I just don't see how a person who is unable to lose weight at present is going to be able to maintain weight loss 8-12 weeks in the future.

Calorie restriction lowers insulin at the expense of constant hunger, and once the person is no longer in that initial mindset of being willing to endure constant hunger and reverts to eating ad libitum, their hyperinsulinemia will return and they will gain weight.

If they are unable to follow a highly satiating diet today, what makes us think that they will be able to do so after a period of 8-12 weeks of intense constant hunger? To me it reads like another one of those interventions that sounds great to doctors because it should work on paper, and that will be used to blame patients once they regain weight. The doctor will point at a study that shows that some patients are able to do it and that's it.

And don't get me started on how calorie restriction leads to substantial loss of skeletal muscle mass, reducing the amount of glycogen storage that can rapidly absorb spikes of blood glucose, or how hard it is to restore that lean tissue, especially on older patients.

Re: Does the American Diabetes Association work for patients or companies?

#203

Post by FireBeyond »

AlbertCory wrote: post #59
guerby wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did you check the litterature? https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/20697688/ Hba1c 6.0 to 6.5 (so called prediabetic range) has 2.5 times the hasard ratio of below 6.0. Increasing Hba1c is the leading indicator of future health issues and by far.

This comes closer to a cogent answer, which is what I was after. > future health issues like? As I said, I'm not ready to publish this, but I wanted to hear some arguments that made sense. So thanks. To me, "probability of progression from pre-diabetes to diabetes" is the only reason to say it's a real condition rather than just a risk factor. Furthermore, it would be the derivative of the level, rather than the leve…

With all due respect, if you're "working on a paper" on this, but the hazard ratios for differing HbA1c values is a novel discussion point to you, I am wary of what else you "don't know".

Re: Does the American Diabetes Association work for patients or companies?

#204

Post by kelipso »

Pomfers wrote: post #193
shepherdjerred wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So it sounds like artificial sugars can actually cause diabetes? That's unfortunate. Occasionally I drink Coke Zero as an alternative to Coke, but perhaps I should start replacing that with unsweetened seltzer water like La Croix.

No, the "Potential for reverse causality cannot be eliminated" means that instead of artificial sweeteners causing diabetes, causality can be reversed: Diabetes causes the intake of artificial sweeteners. All these studies just show an association, but can not prove the direction of causality. For whatever reason, the idea that diabetic and overweight people deliberately seek out zero sugar sweeteners so that they ca…

"I have never seen a thin person drinking Diet Coke."

Re: Does the American Diabetes Association work for patients or companies?

#205

Post by LeroyRaz »

I am surprised that 1 million allegedly buys that level of corruption and influence.

It seems strange it would only cost 1 million to make the association a corporate shrill for Stevia when diabetes as an issue costs billions to the US.

If you're going to forgo your princibles and be corrupt then at least get higher price for doing so!

Re: Does the American Diabetes Association work for patients or companies?

#206

Post by johnfernow »

gloryjulio wrote: post #161
johnfernow wrote: post #93

Here's a great PDF I found on the ADA's website from fall 2023: https://professional.diabetes.org/sites/default/files/media/... > This content is brought to you by Splenda, a proud supporter of the American > Diabetes Association > A Message from Splenda > Splenda® is committed to helping people achieve their health goals by making it > easier for people to reduce the amount of added sugar in their diet. You likely k…

I thought Splenda has almost nonexistent calorie and I am not sure what makes it different from aspartame functionally. Any reputable research on the direct damages caused by Splenda?

- https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9655943/

The study above references 4 different studies that indicate that artificial sweeteners can affect glucose tolerance through changes in the microbiota composition:

- https://www.nature.com/articles/nature13793

(free PDF here: https://d1wqtxts1xzle7.cloudfront.net/44081512/Artificial_Sw... )

- https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6363527/

- https://www.cell.com/cell/fulltext/S0092-8674(22)00919-9

- https://www.cell.com/cell/fulltext/S0092-8674(22)00994-1

The article also references 4 studies that indicate that artificial sweeteners have side effects in terms of obesity, cardiovascular disease, and mortality.

- https://www.bmj.com/content/378/bmj-2022-071204

- https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6538252/

- https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9506029/

- https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8946744/

Re: Does the American Diabetes Association work for patients or companies?

#207

Post by UncleSlacky »

david-gpu wrote: post #202
UncleSlacky wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Calorie restriction under the Newcastle Protocol is only required for between 8-12 weeks, typically once you've lost around 15kg on average. Afterwards, it's a matter of maintaining the weight loss through (improved) diet and exercise.

> Afterwards, it's a matter of maintaining the weight loss through (improved) diet and exercise. I just don't see how a person who is unable to lose weight at present is going to be able to maintain weight loss 8-12 weeks in the future. Calorie restriction lowers insulin at the expense of constant hunger, and once the person is no longer in that initial mindset of being willing to endure constant hunger and reverts t…

The threat of serious illness/disability/death is a great motivator, it certainly was in my case.

Re: Does the American Diabetes Association work for patients or companies?

#208

Post by david-gpu »

UncleSlacky wrote: post #207
david-gpu wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Afterwards, it's a matter of maintaining the weight loss through (improved) diet and exercise. I just don't see how a person who is unable to lose weight at present is going to be able to maintain weight loss 8-12 weeks in the future. Calorie restriction lowers insulin at the expense of constant hunger, and once the person is no longer in that initial mindset of being willing to endure constant hunger and reverts t…

The threat of serious illness/disability/death is a great motivator, it certainly was in my case.

> The threat of serious illness/disability/death is a great motivator, it certainly was in my case.

That already existed before the 8-12 weeks of semi-starvation.

Re: Does the American Diabetes Association work for patients or companies?

#209

Post by elicash »

devilbunny wrote: post #199
elicash wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1. I’m not a public sector worker, weird assumption. 2. I advocate for private sector to unionize as well. I’m not the one who brought up Janus/private sector. 3. You’re telling me people with important jobs (private or public) shouldn’t be able to strike to improve the very services we all depend on? Hospital workers striking for better patient ratios? Teachers for their students? Taking away those freedoms is wrong…

"You" being used impersonally here; I don't mean you specifically. Private sector unions are crap under US law, but they're a good concept in general. No, public sector employees should not be allowed to strike. They get special protections (civil service) that do not apply to private-sector workers. Public sector workers work for the rest of us; we're not all fat-cat capitalists taking their potential wages to make…

I think our fundamental disagreement is that I view public sector employment as more similar to private sector in the day-to-day than you do.

Secondarily, I think you fail to think through what happens when PRIVATE sector workers like hospital workers, or nursing home workers, or other important jobs go on strike. It can't just be the case that if the general public is hurt by it, they lose worker protections. Especially when often the goals of those strikes are to improve the services. There's not really a reason to separate out private from public sector here. Private sector jobs are also important to the general public.

Re: Does the American Diabetes Association work for patients or companies?

#210

Post by DiggyJohnson »

shkkmo wrote: post #163
DiggyJohnson wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you’re getting offended on behalf of a cohort of people that do not exist. Let them speak for themselves if they do.

Do some traveling and broaden your horizons. It isn't a particularly novel or even rare opinion. "American" is one of the idiocies of the English language, and you'll notice it is the only language that presumes that that word refers only to US citizens.

If we are talking about how people use this work in other languages, then yea of course I don't know what or how they use that language. I assumed we were talking about English spoken in the West.
Post reply on HN