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End of the Line? Saudi Arabia to scale back plans for desert megacity

theguardian.com

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Re: End of the Line? Saudi Arabia to scale back plans for desert megacity

#201

Post by RcouF1uZ4gsC »

lupusreal wrote: post #127
RcouF1uZ4gsC wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Dubai, Abu Dhabi, Riyadh, Bahrain, Qatar, they all remind me of that quote from King of the Hill—they are monuments to man's arrogance. Do you also call Amsterdam with its dikes and below sea level, “a monument to man’s arrogance? Wasn’t the moon landing a monument to man’s arrogance? I think calling something “a monument to man’s arrogance” reveals more about the biases of the person saying it than about the actua…

Why do you think either of those aren't?

Of course they are. Every human achievement is in a sense a monument to the arrogance of man.

My issue is that when the term is used as a pejorative, it more often used with regards to projects in developing countries.

Re: End of the Line? Saudi Arabia to scale back plans for desert megacity

#202

Post by pdimitar »

nicolas_t wrote: post #195
pdimitar wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> For decades, they wanted to diversify away from oil and build tech industries. The problem is they don’t have skilled labor and would have to import “slaves” as they do with everything. Quite correct. I had people reaching out to me saying they want me to contract for Arabic millionaires -- websites, backends, a lot of stuff together -- but every time they demanded time tracking, they wanted to know my physical add…

In my experience of working with software developers in India and China, the ones who are really good would absolutely refuse this kind of privacy invasion. Good developers living in those countries have choice and are well paid.

That's what I said: those who are good no longer accept abuse.

Re: End of the Line? Saudi Arabia to scale back plans for desert megacity

#203

Post by valval »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #55
rrr_oh_man wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> all while in the back alley local chiefs who oppose stupid and unrealistic white elephant vanity projects are executed Can you give any keywords what to look for to read more about this?

Here you go: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017–2019_Saudi_Arabian_purge

So complete bullshit -- gotcha.

Re: End of the Line? Saudi Arabia to scale back plans for desert megacity

#204

Post by avar »

alangibson wrote: post #134

I want to see someone seriously analyze what would happen if there was a power loss to the Line. Hundreds of thousands of people in a glass box in 50C weather with no AC sounds like a recipe for a record breaking mass casualty event.

With the caveat that all published "plans" for the thing were probably meant as a PR stunt the plan called for passively cooling it[1].

That part actually doesn't seem implausible, it's right on the Red Sea, which is quite hot on the surface, but cools down as you you go deeper into it[2].

So (and this is just my speculation) they could have a large undersea pipeline to a depth of say 1km, and use the heat the building itself to pull up and distribute that cold water through cooling ducts throughout the structure.

They were also planning to desalinate seawater, so such a system would perform the double duty of pulling that seawater into the building.

1. https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/why-i-admire-saudi-arabi...

2. https://os.copernicus.org/articles/16/149/2020/

Re: End of the Line? Saudi Arabia to scale back plans for desert megacity

#205

Post by dindobre »

cess11 wrote: post #192
dindobre wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Will the world's criminals start storing their money there or did you mean something else with Switzerland of the Middle East?

Probably not, they'll still put the money in Luxembourg and Switzerland, but they can exchange gold and diamonds and stuff like that from shady dealings in Africa for money there. If you look into it you'll find that it's a nice marketplace for israeli oligarchs running operations in DR Congo, e.g. for diamonds which Israel exports unexpected amounts of, and you'll also find that the Rapid Support Forces/Janjaweed in…

I find your second paragraph especially interesting, do you have a source (e.g. a book) to get deeper into this?

Re: End of the Line? Saudi Arabia to scale back plans for desert megacity

#206

Post by refurb »

delta_p_delta_x wrote: post #43

The only thing the Gulf states have going for them is oil money and a good hub location on the Europe–Southeast Asia airline routes. Dubai, Abu Dhabi, Riyadh, Bahrain, Qatar, they all remind me of that quote from King of the Hill—they are monuments to man's arrogance. Desert cities hitting 50+ °C air temperature at midday which means air conditioning everywhere; vapid luxury in the form of expensive garish cars, shop…

Wait, you’re blaming them for developing their country because it’s a desert and hot?

Are you suggesting they should have just remained on camels while sand blows around them?

Re: End of the Line? Saudi Arabia to scale back plans for desert megacity

#207

Post by olabyne »

theGeatZhopa wrote: post #140
reducesuffering wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“unexpected” That is not the word I or most of HN would have used… It’s a sad state of the world that this delusional lunatic is dictator of a $1T GDP country instead of everyone else that understands this is a stupid idea.

Yes, you can mix your dislike into your opinions, but they still stay your opinions. I'm interested in the technology, in the achievements that are possible, the problem solving and solutions found to do something of this scope. It's not about lunatics or the ** arabs dictators or killers ** say what you want. For example, the need for the special sand for the concrete. Their sand, which they have plenty of, is compl…

But opinions don't matter here. If you are logical and factual, that city as vaporware from the beginning. You don't need the many debunks available online to see that this project is unfeasible, whether you are talking budget, architecture, maintenance or transportation.

Re: End of the Line? Saudi Arabia to scale back plans for desert megacity

#208

Post by Y_Y »

oliviabenson wrote: post #182
Simon_ORourke wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> local chiefs who oppose stupid and unrealistic white elephant vanity projects are executed. Let's not gloss over the absolutely appalling respect many of these societies have for human dignity. Public executions and flogging, discrimination and imprisonment based solely on gender, absolutely zero regard for freedom of conscience when it comes to matters of religion. There's only so much you can get away with by say…

We are complicit (if not responsible). Accepted practice isn’t an excuse for indifference but criticising your own country isn’t a free pass to criticise the culture of others without challenging our culpability. If we sincerely want to help the citizens of these countries that we believe to be oppressed, we have options that we choose not to take. We could offer cultural asylum, give people a route to access our cul…

Who said anything about America? There are aspects of society in the Middle East that are different and bad. You don't have to be a moral absolutist to prefer that people not be stoned for adultery. And you can't assume that Muslims on average have a "deep sense of pride and duty" about the way their society is run. Sure some do, but they're not aliens with some higher form of existence, they're humans just like you and usually just worry about their day-to-day and believe a lot of things because that's what everyone around them seems to believe, just like Americans who like Protestantism and capitalism.

Re: End of the Line? Saudi Arabia to scale back plans for desert megacity

#209

Post by valval »

delta_p_delta_x wrote: post #181
pembrook wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It still takes less energy than heating given climate differentials, so any argument that air conditioning is “garish” and “wrong” needs to be applied to heating also (and anyone living in cold climates ie. Europeans, Americans, etc). I see the argument that air conditioning is somehow “wrong” or “unsophisticated” on HN all the time (usually from Europeans) and it’s one of the weirdest things. I see no explanation fo…

I'm not European; I come from a tropical island country that is also in love with air-conditioning. I dislike it and prefer natural cool air. At home, it recycles stale, dry air. In urban settings, air-conditioners pump hotter air into the (already) sizzling outside. There are better implementations like district cooling with cold water, but this will require ripping out every single split-aircon unit from every sing…

>I dislike it and prefer natural cool air.

Okay.

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