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Paris cycling numbers double in one year thanks to investment

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Re: Paris cycling numbers double in one year thanks to investment

#201

Post by pandaman »

milkytron wrote: post #193
ThunderSizzle wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Freedom of movement. Cars represent freedom of movement akin to a horse with a trailer, except you have an engine instead of a horse. I dont think Americans care for the current road monopoly states have, or the monopolistic tolls and enforcement. The idea of freedom of movement isn't really a European-centric ideal - its more uniquely American and derived from being a nation derived from those escaping injustices of…

I agree, but for those that truly value freedom, I would think that they would also value the freedom of choice. Car dependent societies don't allow many choices, you are restricted to only choosing a car for transportation.

"Freedom of choice" is literally that, a freedom to make a choice, nobody is restricting you from it. Having many choices to make is not a freedom, it's power.

Re: Paris cycling numbers double in one year thanks to investment

#202

Post by adrianN »

6bb32646d83d wrote: post #175
alistairSH wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have a citation for that? Is car ownership and usage for city residents really the same?

I don't live there anymore but I grew up in Paris - I knew absolutely nobody living in Paris driving to another location in Paris. It's always been metro first, bicycle sometime. Almost all of the passenger car you see in Paris are people driving from the suburb.

This is why this whole change was even politically possible.

Re: Paris cycling numbers double in one year thanks to investment

#203

Post by mbs159 »

lotsoweiners wrote: post #163
HEmanZ wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suspect the US is going to get a super bifurcated urbanist result across cities in the next 20 years. Places like NYC, Boston, Chicago, Seattle, Portland, and San Francisco (maybe not these exact cities but you get the gist) are going to move strong towards European style urban infrastructure. It seems to be one topic that really does mobilize voters, especially younger educated voters, in these cities. It will in…

Those cities you mentioned already have European style urban infrastructure. In my opinion the big difference is that the drivers in the European cities seemed crazier than their US counterparts.

>Those cities you mentioned already have European style urban infrastructure.

I hope you're joking. it's very rare to see a highway wider than 6 lanes in Europe, especially that runs through cities, whilst the aforementioned cities have a abundance of such monstrosities.

Re: Paris cycling numbers double in one year thanks to investment

#204

Post by mbs159 »

ThunderSizzle wrote: post #162
doctor_phil wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't get the American fixation of cars. Isn't public roads a mild form of communism?

Freedom of movement. Cars represent freedom of movement akin to a horse with a trailer, except you have an engine instead of a horse. I dont think Americans care for the current road monopoly states have, or the monopolistic tolls and enforcement. The idea of freedom of movement isn't really a European-centric ideal - its more uniquely American and derived from being a nation derived from those escaping injustices of…

I disagree that it provides any freedom at all, since you are limited by roads. If certain roads are cut off by sabotage or other means, you lose your imaginary "freedom of movement".

Regarding it being an "American thing", Germany was the first country to build highways, and currently the highways there (Autobahn) don't even have a speed limit, so you could say that they provide more freedom of movement than the roads in the US.

Re: Paris cycling numbers double in one year thanks to investment

#205

Post by mbs159 »

pandaman wrote: post #201
milkytron wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree, but for those that truly value freedom, I would think that they would also value the freedom of choice. Car dependent societies don't allow many choices, you are restricted to only choosing a car for transportation.

"Freedom of choice" is literally that, a freedom to make a choice, nobody is restricting you from it. Having many choices to make is not a freedom, it's power.

Car infrastructure taking up unnecessary parts of cities limits the freedom of transportation by other means, like walking or cycling.

Re: Paris cycling numbers double in one year thanks to investment

#206

Post by Mawr »

vanilla_nut wrote: post #123
rrrrrrrrrrrryan wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Way less noise though

I don't think London has made quite the strides in bikeability that Paris has since 2020, but when I visited Hackney last year I was astonished to see more bikes during rush hour than cars. Walking down a road to a coffee shop, I actually had to wait a few seconds to cross at the intersection between two bike highways. Hundreds of people riding bikes to work. And as quiet as the wilderness behind my house in the rura…

A treat for you: https://youtu.be/CTV-wwszGw8?t=289 :)

Re: Paris cycling numbers double in one year thanks to investment

#208

Post by jcul »

CalRobert wrote: post #136
darkamaul wrote: post #63

As a daily biker in Paris (and for years), I think it is hard to grasp the changes Paris has seen in the last years. You now even get to see some congestion on bike lanes (Bd Sebastopol for instance), because they are too many cyclist on an older (and thus too narrow) bike lane. This change, the new subway lanes, and the reduction of car usage in the city make the city much more enjoyable on a day to day basis, espec…

We were trying to decide where to live and visiting Paris for Christmas in 2022 was a sheer joy. We ended up in the Netherlands but biking along Rue de Rivoli, the Seine, etc. were a delight for myself and my daughters (we were in a cargo bike) and we hope to return for many visits. I visited in 2008 and while it was a great city then I definitely wouldn't have been as quick to take kids along for a bike ride.

Were you able to rent a cargo bike in Paris?

Or did you somehow bring one with you?

Re: Paris cycling numbers double in one year thanks to investment

#209

Post by gregoriol »

sloowm wrote: post #125
gregoriol wrote: post #46

It must also has be taken into account that driving has become annoying to the point that many people from suburbs don't come anymore to Paris for shopping, theatres, exhibitions, ... and many living inside or nearby are really annoyed by the public transports which are dirty, not on time, too crowded, beggars every few minutes, ... so biking is like a forced solution that helps with some things but isn't always a ch…

You describe Paris as if it's a shopping/entertainment center for the suburbs. It also looks like you're implying that Paris needs the economic activity generated by the suburbs. For that I would investigate what a suburb is by definition.

In the 70s-90s, it was! A lot of shops and movie theatres have closed in some areas like Champs-Elysées, Montparnasse, Saint-Germain, ... where people used to come by car from suburbs on the week-ends because they could, because it was practical, because they could park.

Places for shopping and entertainment have been created in the suburbs since then, which is a win for the suburbs but not for Paris which has become depressing.

Re: Paris cycling numbers double in one year thanks to investment

#210

Post by CalRobert »

jcul wrote: post #208
CalRobert wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We were trying to decide where to live and visiting Paris for Christmas in 2022 was a sheer joy. We ended up in the Netherlands but biking along Rue de Rivoli, the Seine, etc. were a delight for myself and my daughters (we were in a cargo bike) and we hope to return for many visits. I visited in 2008 and while it was a great city then I definitely wouldn't have been as quick to take kids along for a bike ride.

Were you able to rent a cargo bike in Paris? Or did you somehow bring one with you?

We rented one from here - https://www.hollandbikes.com/117-velo-transport

One challenge with cargo bikes is transport - They're not allowed on trains (understandably) and carrying one on a car roof is a pretty big undertaking. This guy documented how, though! https://docs.google.com/document/d/1UBGT_eE4q0dJZWZrOoBdM80b...

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