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Brain waves appear to wash out waste during sleep in mice

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Re: Brain waves appear to wash out waste during sleep in mice

#201

Post by milesvp »

magicalhippo wrote: post #155
robg wrote: post #87

If you have any doubts about sleep quantity and quality, worth reading about the glymphatic nervous system, which is so newly discovered likely you didn’t learn about it in school. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4636982/ In short it explains, mechanistically, why poor sleep affects daily cognition, mental health, and age-related declines. Robust scientific theories explain more of the evidence. The glym…

It makes me sad as my SO struggles a lot with sleep. It's been years since she's had a good nights sleep. Sadly her issues are mostly psychologically rooted due to past trauma, while all the treatments seem to be geared towards "simple" physical issues. She's tried contacting various sleep clinics here and they've all said they can't help. She struggles a lot with falling asleep, she's exceptionally sensitive to soun…

I’ve been watching a lot of healthy gamer youtube channel, the host likes to really geek out on brain science. One of the big take aways I’ve gotten watching him, is that sleep serves a layered purpose psychologically (and physically as per this article), that you work through social problems, then physical problems, then consolidating memory, sort of in that order.

One of the study tricks that the host figured out, was that if you want to memorize something, you should get rid of all the other things you don’t want to learn, and that journaling is amazingly good at that. Basically if you write down all the things you don’t want to remember, it sort of leaves space to move things to long term memory.

I say all this, because I’ve been experimenting with journaling at night, and it really helps with some of the restless nights where it feels like something is keeping me awake. It’s not a magic bullet, and it takes effort, but it may help to write down the things bothering your partner prior to sleep to allow for some of the ”less important” processes to happen.

Re: Brain waves appear to wash out waste during sleep in mice

#202

Post by theaussiestew »

quesera wrote: post #101
theaussiestew wrote: post #16

That's a really interesting scientific finding. From a personal experience, once I closed my eyes and actually observed this phenomenon. I could observe many spherical waves of light each pulsating, and not only that but I could feel the effect of each wave viscerally. It definitely felt healing. I wasn't sure what this was, was it the vibes of meditators around the world? Maybe this research finding is what I was ob…

Reflexively, that doesn't make sense. I cannot imagine perceiving ionic CSF flow with my eyes. But thinking about it more, maybe there is something to it? I'm wholly unqualified to speculate here, but I know computers and computers are exactly the same as everything in the real world, so let's go! ... - When restful and with my eyes closed, I definitely "see" waves move across my field of vision. My eyes see "black"…

I deliberately didn't use the word "see" when phrasing my response. I used the word observed because it was an observation, not a seeing. And I'm not describing a flow of vague amorphous whitish material, I know what you're talking about and I'm not describing that.

I tried to observe the phenomena yesterday again and couldn't observe it but it was very specifically this in the past: spherical orbs of white light expanding from a centre. There were many of these, and my perception was that the nature of this geometric expanding shape was healing. To describe it more clearly, many years ago I felt that the perfect geometric spherical nature of these expanding waves were designed to gently round off rough edges. To make an analogy, imagine kneading some play dough over and over again. When you use your hands to do so, every time your hands make contact with the play dough, the play dough changes shape slightly because of the contact between your hands and the play dough and it gets softer. Now apply this concept to the idea of energetic waves making contact and passing through the material substrate of the brain and the rest of the body (yes I observed the waves applying to more than just my mind). It was my physical and conscious perception that as the spherical waves emanated from some center, they gently readjusted the physical substrate that they passed through. And because there were so many of them in different spatial locations, this readjustment was incredibly refined.

I was slightly disappointed to see my comment down voted but I'm not too surprised. I stand by my description as an accurate and well considered, rational description of what I had observed in the past.

Re: Brain waves appear to wash out waste during sleep in mice

#203

Post by theaussiestew »

dynisor wrote: post #32
theaussiestew wrote: post #16

That's a really interesting scientific finding. From a personal experience, once I closed my eyes and actually observed this phenomenon. I could observe many spherical waves of light each pulsating, and not only that but I could feel the effect of each wave viscerally. It definitely felt healing. I wasn't sure what this was, was it the vibes of meditators around the world? Maybe this research finding is what I was ob…

Are you perhaps describing phosphenes?

No I'm not. Please see my other comment where I make a physical analogy to why spherical expanding waves of light may be healing and restorative.

Re: Brain waves appear to wash out waste during sleep in mice

#204

Post by softsound »

magicalhippo wrote: post #155
robg wrote: post #87

If you have any doubts about sleep quantity and quality, worth reading about the glymphatic nervous system, which is so newly discovered likely you didn’t learn about it in school. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4636982/ In short it explains, mechanistically, why poor sleep affects daily cognition, mental health, and age-related declines. Robust scientific theories explain more of the evidence. The glym…

It makes me sad as my SO struggles a lot with sleep. It's been years since she's had a good nights sleep. Sadly her issues are mostly psychologically rooted due to past trauma, while all the treatments seem to be geared towards "simple" physical issues. She's tried contacting various sleep clinics here and they've all said they can't help. She struggles a lot with falling asleep, she's exceptionally sensitive to soun…

Learning to control your dreams is what I did with my nightmares, at some point it becomes so easy you can do it on command but... It doesn't always work and requires extra energy to stay in control often leaving me falling asleep in my dreams which ironically means I don't sleep well. And there are still nightmares I get, just had one a few days ago that left me too afraid to sleep again. Still, I think it's overall a good long term skill about building mental awareness. I learned it as a child on my own, and I believe adults can also learn it by simply studying their environment often and looking if anything else is amiss or "unrealistic". Sometimes you can also ask yourself questions before bed, and try to use visualization before sleeping or sleeping to sound or audiobooks to help you relax too. My family has a history of being more prone to spiritual and psychology issues so bring aware of family history can also sometimes make you idk feel less alone too. Just being able to shift the narrative can mean a lot and give you power when you feel powerless sometimes, but it can be tough to get there but baby steps can make a huge difference. Something I personally did as a child when I felt afraid was to visualize a golden warm light around me almost like a bubble, it didn't always work but I guess it helped to get away from negative thoughts by trying to focus on something protective for me. Soft repetition also seems helpful because it's predictable so perhaps finding something predictable may help too. And maybe looking into CPTSD.

Re: Brain waves appear to wash out waste during sleep in mice

#205

Post by hn_throwaway_99 »

canadiantim wrote: post #170
magicalhippo wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It makes me sad as my SO struggles a lot with sleep. It's been years since she's had a good nights sleep. Sadly her issues are mostly psychologically rooted due to past trauma, while all the treatments seem to be geared towards "simple" physical issues. She's tried contacting various sleep clinics here and they've all said they can't help. She struggles a lot with falling asleep, she's exceptionally sensitive to soun…

She should try ketamine. Sounds like it’s exactly what you say, past trauma, that’s holding her back from a good nights sleep. Ketamine has done wonders for someone I love and I would wholeheartedly recommend it. The person in my life who benefited greatly from it only needed one weekend (2 relatively low to medium dose sessions of ketamine) and she was cured of her ptsd. Also strongly recommend weighted blankets, es…

I'm sad that you were downvoted. I've suffered from depression episodes throughout my life, which could often lead to a "doom loop" of waking up every night between 2-3 AM (early morning waking is a common feature of depression), and then the insomnia made my depression worse.

I had been in therapy for nearly 15 years, and I while I wasn't on antidepressants long term, I had taken them for a couple episodes in the past. For my most recent episode (partially brought on by a particularly bad prolonged string of insomnia) I was having constant suicidal thoughts. I went in and had a ketamine session - I'm reluctant to talk to much about the details of my ketamine trip, because one theory I have for why it worked well for me is that I didn't have any preconceived notions about what I'd experience, and I specifically didn't want to get my hopes up.

The next morning I was singing in the shower. If there was ever a substance that I believed "miracle drug" fit the bill, for me it was ketamine. It helped me develop a whole new outlook on life and how I related to myself. I know that I was very lucky (my psychiatrist says I am a "ketamine responder") and not everyone has that same response. For me, though, I firmly believe ketamine treatment saved my life.

Re: Brain waves appear to wash out waste during sleep in mice

#206

Post by theaussiestew »

nprateem wrote: post #117
theaussiestew wrote: post #16

That's a really interesting scientific finding. From a personal experience, once I closed my eyes and actually observed this phenomenon. I could observe many spherical waves of light each pulsating, and not only that but I could feel the effect of each wave viscerally. It definitely felt healing. I wasn't sure what this was, was it the vibes of meditators around the world? Maybe this research finding is what I was ob…

Perhaps it's how meditation balances the sympathetic and parasympathetic nervous systems. But yeah, I know when my mediation is deepening because the rhythmic pulsation up my spine into my base brain begins.

I'm not talking about the general effect of meditation which is to relax the body and increase the flow throughout the body. I was talking very specifically about this concept of spherical expanding waves of light. To make an analogy, it resembles a moderately white light expanding from a centre. See my other comment where I describe how such a phenomena could be healing and restorative using a physical analogy.

Re: Brain waves appear to wash out waste during sleep in mice

#207

Post by theaussiestew »

Nemi wrote: post #180
quesera wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reflexively, that doesn't make sense. I cannot imagine perceiving ionic CSF flow with my eyes. But thinking about it more, maybe there is something to it? I'm wholly unqualified to speculate here, but I know computers and computers are exactly the same as everything in the real world, so let's go! ... - When restful and with my eyes closed, I definitely "see" waves move across my field of vision. My eyes see "black"…

Ok, I have never told anyone this, but I also sometimes wake up and “see” like a waterfall effect over my vision. It only happens very rarely and only for less than a minute after I get woken from a deep sleep. It is not unlike a moving sensation or water moving over my eyes. I realized that it is probably fluid moving over my visual cortex and being interpreted as vision. Seems weird and I have nothing to back it up…

I'm not talking about the vague flow of amorphous material, I can perceive that too but it's not what I'm referring to. I made a follow up reply where I describe specifically what this phenomena is and my hypothesis on the mechanism behind the healing.

Re: Brain waves appear to wash out waste during sleep in mice

#208

Post by plasticchris »

LoganDark wrote: post #162
plasticchris wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But your brain is disconnected from your body during dreams, to keep you from flailing around. Sometimes you even wake up before the block is lifted and can’t move. So controlling such a device would be difficult.

You're describing sleep paralysis, right? It's not so much a disconnection as it is an inhibition. Attempts to move most of your muscles are blocked, but external stimuli still get in. You know, once upon a time someone started the washer while I was presumably in REM, and I started to hear something in my dream. When I woke up, it only took me a couple minutes to realize that what I had been hearing in the dream was…

Yeah, that’s right. I had it once before I knew it was a thing and could see, hear, feel, but not move. Quite terrifying at the time, even if it resolved pretty rapidly.

Re: Brain waves appear to wash out waste during sleep in mice

#209

Post by moffkalast »

Terr_ wrote: post #189
moffkalast wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder if eventually once this is more thoroughly researched there could be a way to induce constant cleaning instead of having to do it while unconscious at night? Or at least reduce the hours required. If we could solve this we could just stay awake perpetually and instantly gain a 30% longer lifespan as it were.

If there is any magic bullet, it'll be something biological evolution can't easily jump-to or stumble-upon. Otherwise I think it would have happened already, given the risks of sleep and the rewards of an expanded activity (or at least awareness) cycle.

Well it's not unheard of that some people won the genetic lottery and are more efficient at it, functioning normally with only 3, 4 hours of sleep every day. There's definitely room for improvement for those of us that need 8 or 9 lmao. Hell even reducing it to just 7 or 6 would be such a massive gain.

Re: Brain waves appear to wash out waste during sleep in mice

#210

Post by Horffupolde »

magicalhippo wrote: post #176
canadiantim wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

She should try ketamine. Sounds like it’s exactly what you say, past trauma, that’s holding her back from a good nights sleep. Ketamine has done wonders for someone I love and I would wholeheartedly recommend it. The person in my life who benefited greatly from it only needed one weekend (2 relatively low to medium dose sessions of ketamine) and she was cured of her ptsd. Also strongly recommend weighted blankets, es…

We've investigated ketamine treatment, which does indeed sound very interesting. However very few clinics here that offer it, though it seems to have improved recently. Definitely will follow up on this.

You just need one clinic there that offers it. Why is the relative number relevant?
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