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Mass timber is great, but it will not solve the housing shortage

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Re: Mass timber is great, but it will not solve the housing shortage

#201

Post by ihaveajob »

vondur wrote: post #189
zdragnar wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If they don't like it, they can move. Why doesn't the same logic apply to people who don't like the high prices of housing in some areas? There's plenty of affordable housing in the country, but it doesn't all exist in the places people want to live.

Exactly this. We should be giving people incentives to move the Midwest where there is affordable housing. Not everyone can live on the coasts. Here in California, the infrastructure has not kept up with the population increases. As a result, houses are being built in areas that were previously wilderness and now we have fires burning through entire towns.

San Francisco, the densest city in the state, is 3/4 suburbia. There's no reason why it couldn't host 4 times the population without resorting to Hong Kong style urbanism (which would be great IMO, but that's a separate story). The infrastructure argument would make sense if homes in remote areas didn't also need that infrastructure, while suffering from lower efficiency in all measures.

Re: Mass timber is great, but it will not solve the housing shortage

#202

Post by baggy_trough »

jachee wrote: post #193
baggy_trough wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't want to live next to a huge building, so I selected a town where that was not allowed. So don't tell me changing this is a win win for me. It isn't.

I’m genuinely curious: Why not? What difference does it make to you what’s next door?

sound, privacy, views, for example.

Re: Mass timber is great, but it will not solve the housing shortage

#203

Post by Aloisius »

willcipriano wrote: post #154
2024throwaway wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> beacuse the government flew desperate people from the poorest part of the planet to town to compete with the existing dishwashers. Gonna need some sources on this one.

From just last week: > The Center for Immigration Studies found last year from January 2023 to December 2023, at least 320,000 illegal immigrants were allowed to fly into the U.S. from their home country through a controversial program of the Biden administration using the Customs and Border Patrol app, the CBP One app that was created to let migrants apply for parole into the US. > The Parole program allows for two-…

Sigh.

The humanitarian parole program was created to allow 30,000 Cuban/Haitian/Nicaraguan/Venezuelan nationals in per month on a two year work visa as long as they have a US sponsor that will financially support them and pass background checks.

In return, Mexico is allowing the US to expel 30,000 illegal migrants per month from those countries to Mexico rather than their home countries.

Re: Mass timber is great, but it will not solve the housing shortage

#204

Post by zdragnar »

admax88qqq wrote: post #195
vondur wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly this. We should be giving people incentives to move the Midwest where there is affordable housing. Not everyone can live on the coasts. Here in California, the infrastructure has not kept up with the population increases. As a result, houses are being built in areas that were previously wilderness and now we have fires burning through entire towns.

Is the affordable housing that exists int he Midwest not an incentive? Or do you think we should be giving people even more?

Many people find the Midwest winters unpleasant, and many Midwest states lack variety in outdoor terrain.

On top of that, finding a job can be quite a bit more work if it is a career that can't work from home and you don't want a long commut., Many types of jobs are much easier to come by in urban areas, even in the Midwest.

That said, there's plenty of great places to live here, and significantly lower costs of living too.

Re: Mass timber is great, but it will not solve the housing shortage

#205

Post by ihaveajob »

baggy_trough wrote: post #175
tptacek wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Upzoning is a win-win for existing homeowners. Land doesn't get expropriated to build multifamily; it's purchased. Multifamily is a more efficient use of a lot than SFH, so it's purchased at a premium. NIMBYs worry that the mere existence of nearby multifamily will decrease their home value. In rare and unsympathetic cases (places like Winnetka in Illinois) that may be true. But in the bedroom neighborhoods of big ci…

I don't want to live next to a huge building, so I selected a town where that was not allowed. So don't tell me changing this is a win win for me. It isn't.

I suppose you didn't buy the entire town, so you can't preclude your neighbors from wanting their property to appreciate, their lives to become more social, and their environment to change.

Re: Mass timber is great, but it will not solve the housing shortage

#206

Post by stronglikedan »

foxyv wrote: post #177

It takes significantly less materials to build a multi-dwelling apartment/condo/townhouse structure than a single family home. In addition, the required square footage per person drops by huge amounts when people can walk to nearby community centers, restaurants, kitchens, theaters, and bars. We are building massive 3-4k sq. ft. homes for families of four because all of their food, entertainment, and social needs are…

Not everyone likes to share a wall. I'm glad there are options, since I'm one of them. I can walk from my single family home to nearby community centers, restaurants, kitchens, theaters, and bars in 15 minutes. Not everyone likes to be that close to that stuff, and that's okay. I'm glad we have options, since I'm not one of them. There's plenty of space to build new homes of all types. It's an entitlement crisis.

Re: Mass timber is great, but it will not solve the housing shortage

#207

Post by stronglikedan »

shortsunblack wrote: post #197
nightski wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know it's hard to believe that many people are simply happier living in their own single family home and have little desire for the urban lifestyle.

which is fine, if they are willing to pay the full cost of it. suburbia is massively subsidized.

> suburbia is massively subsidized

That's a common argument that no one has been able to sufficiently prove.

Re: Mass timber is great, but it will not solve the housing shortage

#208

Post by baggy_trough »

tptacek wrote: post #198
baggy_trough wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't want to live next to a huge building, so I selected a town where that was not allowed. So don't tell me changing this is a win win for me. It isn't.

I'm speaking only to overall property values, because that's the argument I was replying to. I don't care about your preferences.

I am responding to your first sentence, which is "Upzoning is a win-win for existing homeowners", which is not true in general.

Re: Mass timber is great, but it will not solve the housing shortage

#209

Post by gadflyinyoureye »

shortsunblack wrote: post #197
nightski wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know it's hard to believe that many people are simply happier living in their own single family home and have little desire for the urban lifestyle.

which is fine, if they are willing to pay the full cost of it. suburbia is massively subsidized.

Is it? Those same people work and pay taxes. If they couldn’t live in a city due to cost that city would have less revenue as a result of fewer employed people buying goods and services.

Re: Mass timber is great, but it will not solve the housing shortage

#210

Post by Jomus »

nightski wrote: post #196
foxyv wrote: post #177

It takes significantly less materials to build a multi-dwelling apartment/condo/townhouse structure than a single family home. In addition, the required square footage per person drops by huge amounts when people can walk to nearby community centers, restaurants, kitchens, theaters, and bars. We are building massive 3-4k sq. ft. homes for families of four because all of their food, entertainment, and social needs are…

I know it's hard to believe that many people are simply happier living in their own single family home and have little desire for the urban lifestyle.

I know it's hard to believe that many people just want affordable housing
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