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"AI will cure cancer" misunderstands both AI and medicine

rachel.fast.ai

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Re: "AI will cure cancer" misunderstands both AI and medicine

#201
post #180
post #171

The issue with Transformers based AI is humans think it is a golden pill often trusting it more than they should. We are far from AI that models reality.

Do you have any support for this argument?

That we're overtrusting AI?

Wonderful book on it https://www.amazon.com/Weapons-Math-Destruction-Increases-In...

https://www.technologyreview.com/2023/10/10/1081351/are-we-r...

https://arxiv.org/abs/2311.05232

Re: "AI will cure cancer" misunderstands both AI and medicine

#202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cancer is a mutation. Much of the most promising recent work I've read on therapies focuses on: 1) Understanding the specific mutations 2) Helping the immune system find way to identify, and therefore attack, those specific cancer cells More of the work focuses on t-cells, but otherwise, it's not too dissimilar from the work on infections. I should know better than to discuss medicine on a SWE forum. Every post here…

You may be done here, but you are still misunderstanding the medicine. You are making exactly the same errors as mentioned in the article - generalisation. Cancer is not "a" mutation, and that is the whole problem. You are talking about personalised neoantigen-specific t-cells as a generic cure for cancer, while ignoring the fact that not all generations of a cancer express neoantigens, or even the same neoantigens.…

Gosh. You're right. To solve that, we'd need something which could somehow predict the overall set of neoantigens present from the sequences of a few branches of a cancer, and not only that, to be able to rapidly adapt therapies to the antigens present. It sounds like we'd need some kind of algorithm which can do very complex pattern-matching and generalizations.

I can't imagine us ever coming up with something to help us with the fact I'm ignoring. It totally doesn't sound like the sort of thing deep learning would be at all good at.

/sarc

Re: "AI will cure cancer" misunderstands both AI and medicine

#203
post #60
post #21

I do think AI has a chance to make healthcare, for cancer and other diseases, a lot more proactive. Even though we know prognosis is much better for cancer, and many other diseases, if you catch it early, we do essentially nothing to catch it early. My understanding is that this is because: 1. Administering regular MRIs, blood panels, etc. is expensive, in terms of the initial data collection 2. It’s also expensive,…

We found out about my daughter's type 1 diabetes purely by accident. I found a blood glucose test kit doing some spring cleaning and asked the family to gather around to check our sugar. It was really just a joke but I thought it would be fun. Queue three results around 100 and one at 270. We tested again the next day and it was 290. Finding type 1 diabetes this way in a young teenager was so absolutely out of the no…

years ago doing similar thing found out my type2 diabetes when i was 24. It has been a life saver since i am able to manage it before any complication.

Re: "AI will cure cancer" misunderstands both AI and medicine

#204
post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fact that the poster focuses on the term ("leftism") rather than on the substance is itself a red flag imo. It puts the discussion on a weird tripolar spectrum: you're either leftist, centrist, or rightwing (of which the poster is likely to posit themselves as a center, to avoid being called biased). I don't think it's terribly productive, and unless the article was calling for Bolshevik Revolution, I don't mind…

No, there is no fallacy here. You’re just ignorant. There are several signifying phrases and terms used here that are commonly used by people who have absorbed critical theory ideology.

So by memes you’re referring to words and grammatical constructions less than ideas? My comment, which I don’t think you ever responded to (nothing wrong with that just saying), was calling out the fact that you didn’t directly refute the ideas present in the article and are instead fixated on their presentation. If you attacked the ideas directly, I feel you’d only find a few ways to attack them, and that the primary idea you’d be attacking would be sympathy for the poor and such. I think it’s a cop out to avoid directly criticizing popular (on this site) ideas by attacking their presentation.

Re: "AI will cure cancer" misunderstands both AI and medicine

#205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You may be done here, but you are still misunderstanding the medicine. You are making exactly the same errors as mentioned in the article - generalisation. Cancer is not "a" mutation, and that is the whole problem. You are talking about personalised neoantigen-specific t-cells as a generic cure for cancer, while ignoring the fact that not all generations of a cancer express neoantigens, or even the same neoantigens.…

Gosh. You're right. To solve that, we'd need something which could somehow predict the overall set of neoantigens present from the sequences of a few branches of a cancer, and not only that, to be able to rapidly adapt therapies to the antigens present. It sounds like we'd need some kind of algorithm which can do very complex pattern-matching and generalizations. I can't imagine us ever coming up with something to he…

[deleted]

Re: "AI will cure cancer" misunderstands both AI and medicine

#206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You may be done here, but you are still misunderstanding the medicine. You are making exactly the same errors as mentioned in the article - generalisation. Cancer is not "a" mutation, and that is the whole problem. You are talking about personalised neoantigen-specific t-cells as a generic cure for cancer, while ignoring the fact that not all generations of a cancer express neoantigens, or even the same neoantigens.…

Gosh. You're right. To solve that, we'd need something which could somehow predict the overall set of neoantigens present from the sequences of a few branches of a cancer, and not only that, to be able to rapidly adapt therapies to the antigens present. It sounds like we'd need some kind of algorithm which can do very complex pattern-matching and generalizations. I can't imagine us ever coming up with something to he…

> "I can't imagine us ever coming up with something to help us with the fact I'm ignoring"

That fact you are ignoring is the whole point about why engineered t-cells cant be a cure. No neoantigens means nothing to target. And your solution is to just wave your hands and say "deep learning will figure it out"...

You truly are a clown.

Re: "AI will cure cancer" misunderstands both AI and medicine

#207
post #201
post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have any support for this argument?

That we're overtrusting AI? Wonderful book on it https://www.amazon.com/Weapons-Math-Destruction-Increases-In... https://www.technologyreview.com/2023/10/10/1081351/are-we-r... https://arxiv.org/abs/2311.05232

thanks
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