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The case against caffeine

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Re: The case against caffeine

#201

Post by srid »

alkonaut wrote: post #56

I have been drinking a lot of coffe my entire adult life. Many cups of really dark coffee. But a cup is small . And dark coffee doesn't necessarily mean loaded with caffeine. Nothing prepares you for the kind of watery-yet-caffeine-loaded juice you get at a US coffee shop. It's like they think someone would enjoy drinking a half liter hot beverage, and get half a lethal dose of caffeine. Even though I drink 5-10 cups…

The Italians drink single shot espresso all day. Get an espresso machine with 7g basket, and you are set to enjoy coffee all day without subjecting yourself to artificial monastic rules.

I collected some useful information in this X thread: https://twitter.com/sridca/status/1710450654500561028

Re: The case against caffeine

#202

Post by theshrike79 »

OliveMate wrote: post #46

I've been on the decaf wagon for a good few years now, I can't say it helped me out with anxiety or productivity but I can echo the sentiment that I can sleep within minutes. Also not relying on caffeine to keep me going pretty much forces me to sleep at a reasonable time. The hardest thing about giving up caffeine has to be the immediate effects. Your body takes it as a massive shock and you're stuck with what feels…

The mistake that people make is that they expect to be 100% wired the second they get up from bed, while in actuality it takes an hour a two for the (enzyme that wakes you up) to start being produced in your body.

Also: caffeine doesn't make you more alert, it just borrows alertness from the future by blocking the receptors where Adenosine attaches to. The enzymes are still produced, they're not going anywhere.

Re: The case against caffeine

#203

Post by fuzzfactor »

loeg wrote: post #190
munchler wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Significant doses of a psychoactive drug on a regular basis.

I eat food several times a day and it often improves my mood and ability to focus. Is this psychoactive and/or addiction?

It could be worse.

What if it was a truly addictive, habit-forming, tolerance-building drug consumed on a habitual basis without ever allowing a full day, week, month, or year of detoxification to occur, regardless of its toxic properties?

Does that sound more like addiction?

Re: The case against caffeine

#204

Post by bluecheese452 »

crazygringo wrote: post #94
OliveMate wrote: post #46

I've been on the decaf wagon for a good few years now, I can't say it helped me out with anxiety or productivity but I can echo the sentiment that I can sleep within minutes. Also not relying on caffeine to keep me going pretty much forces me to sleep at a reasonable time. The hardest thing about giving up caffeine has to be the immediate effects. Your body takes it as a massive shock and you're stuck with what feels…

> Your body takes it as a massive shock and you're stuck with what feels like a migraine for 2 days. Not fun. Yup, but you can wean yourself off gradually and it's fine. I've done it several times -- just reducing it by 10% of your original amount each day, so you spread the effect out over 10 days. At least for me, zero headaches. Not gonna lie though -- there is a generalized feeling of a little bit of extra "grogg…

I quit cold turkey and had bad headaches. What helped for me was having a decaf coffee. Just one would make the headaches go away. So the jump from say 300 mg to 10mg of caffeine was somehow much better than 300 to 0.

Re: The case against caffeine

#205

Post by davidivadavid »

dahart wrote: post #150
pjc50 wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're not going to suggest that different people have different baseline biochemistry and would benefit from different things in different ways? No! That's not allowed! All health advice must fit all people, and people who don't fit the health advice shouldn't be allowed to complain about it. /sarcasm, but I've seen serious versions of this argument

I keep seeing versions of the argument that we’re all unique snowflakes and so all science is bad and all advice is untrustworthy bs. Usually the argument feels more like a variation on ‘you’re not the boss of me’ than a serious discussion of the science. This feels especially common to me when discussing diets; people seem to get pretty defensive whenever some advice or outcome has any way of being interpreted as th…

Subtweeting the Eliezer Yudkowsky threads on weight loss? More seriously, yes, "We're all unique so nothing could possibly apply to me" is usually pretty thinly veiled cope.

Re: The case against caffeine

#206

Post by arcanemachiner »

munchler wrote: post #118
simonsarris wrote: post #103

To add another anecdote: I drink minimum one small pot of coffee a day (a pour-over I make with my wife, 30g/450g beans/water), plus a moka pot or two in the afternoon, or a 15g pour-over. And 1-3 espresso shots if I go into the office. I consider the coffee experience positively euphoric. Almost spiritual. Certainly ritual. I would never give up the time of sitting with my wife for half an hour to an hour each morni…

> And 1-3 espresso shots if I go into the office. I consider the coffee experience positively euphoric. Almost spiritual. As someone who doesn’t consume caffeine, this sounds a lot like addiction. You can keep the ritual and ditch the caffeine by drinking decaf if you want.

As someone who is addicted to caffeine, hell yes it is an addiction.

A long time ago, I cut out the addictions that were causing negative effects for me (mainly weed and tobacco). I kept caffeine around since I can get wired and still do my job, and it's not overtly unhealthy.

An addiction isn't something inherently bad. Everyone's addicted to something or another. But how many addictions synergize with one's performance at work?

Re: The case against caffeine

#208

Post by arcanemachiner »

fuzzfactor wrote: post #203
loeg wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I eat food several times a day and it often improves my mood and ability to focus. Is this psychoactive and/or addiction?

It could be worse. What if it was a truly addictive, habit-forming, tolerance-building drug consumed on a habitual basis without ever allowing a full day, week, month, or year of detoxification to occur, regardless of its toxic properties? Does that sound more like addiction?

Jeez, fine, I'll put my phone down already!

Re: The case against caffeine

#209

Post by OliveMate »

crazygringo wrote: post #94
OliveMate wrote: post #46

I've been on the decaf wagon for a good few years now, I can't say it helped me out with anxiety or productivity but I can echo the sentiment that I can sleep within minutes. Also not relying on caffeine to keep me going pretty much forces me to sleep at a reasonable time. The hardest thing about giving up caffeine has to be the immediate effects. Your body takes it as a massive shock and you're stuck with what feels…

> Your body takes it as a massive shock and you're stuck with what feels like a migraine for 2 days. Not fun. Yup, but you can wean yourself off gradually and it's fine. I've done it several times -- just reducing it by 10% of your original amount each day, so you spread the effect out over 10 days. At least for me, zero headaches. Not gonna lie though -- there is a generalized feeling of a little bit of extra "grogg…

>And it's far less painful than going cold turkey.

As stupid as it sounds I forgot that it was an option. There's something clean about saying "I won't have any more of X after this date" and sticking to it. Although I could've tapered off beforehand!

Re: The case against caffeine

#210

Post by janetmissed »

thesz wrote: post #145
vinay_ys wrote: post #59

What we really know for sure is this – sleep is good, anxiety is bad. So, if you aren't getting good sleep, find ways to fix it. And if you are anxious all the time, find ways to fix it. By one tradition that's thousands of years old – Yoga+Pranayama+Meditation (linking physical/mental_movement+breadth) and fasting + eating moderately (eat only if you are hungry and eat enough to quench hunger, and eat 'satvik' food)…

> sleep is good, anxiety is bad. Sleep is not all good: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypersomnia Anxiety is not all bad: https://www.intechopen.com/chapters/43757 Sattvic food is not good for your health: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/37085478/ and https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/35710164/

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