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PWAs wont replace native iOS apps

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Re: PWAs wont replace native iOS apps

#201

Post by LorenDB »

andix wrote: post #67
LorenDB wrote: post #33

Maybe we should be pushing for fewer PWAs overall. I personally will not use any web-based app when I can use a native app (with a few exceptions). PWAs just add unnecessary bloat, and the current HTML/CSS/JS stack that the web uses was designed for delivering text documents, not apps, so that inherently limits the experience.

Let me tell you a secret: a LOT of native apps are built on web technologies. Those apps are just shells with some web views.

That's why I avoid Electron software when possible. I use nheko instead of Element for my Matrix client, avoid VSCode unless I really need it, and shun Discord when possible.

Re: PWAs wont replace native iOS apps

#202

Post by tremarley »

Since iOS 17.4 for EU users

1. Apple will DELETE user's data without notice 2. Lot of apps will stop working and there will be no way to access them without update 3. Web Push will stop working; users expecting notifications will never get them 4. Apple breaks the Web platform

This was published in the document "Update on apps distributed in the European Union" https://developer.apple.com/support/dma-and-apps-in-the-eu/

Re: PWAs wont replace native iOS apps

#203

Post by [deleted] »

paulddraper wrote: post #172
palata wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well if you develop an Android PWA without having a single Android device to test it on, then maybe you should not develop an Android app at all. Same applies for iOS.

1. Android emulators exist. 2. It's not crazy to require a ___ device to develop ___ apps. But are you honestly claiming you can develop iPhone apps with an iPhone?

[deleted]

Re: PWAs wont replace native iOS apps

#204

Post by paulddraper »

palata wrote: post #200
paulddraper wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1. Android emulators exist. 2. It's not crazy to require a ___ device to develop ___ apps. But are you honestly claiming you can develop iPhone apps with an iPhone?

If you don't want to develop for iOS, then don't. I don't see why it should be written in the law that Apple has to make it appealing to you.

Oh, thanks :D

Re: PWAs wont replace native iOS apps

#207

Post by usrusr »

hardcopy wrote: post #167
usrusr wrote: post #65

I expect PWA to remain noticeably limited relative to native, and probably with a noticeable gradient between Google and Apple. But I also expect PWA to steamroll all conventional app development nonetheless: PWA optionally bundled with some native components for filing the gaps, as in Tauri. Progressive will just grow another stage beyond manifest and serviceworker: manifest and serviceworker running in a customized…

> PWA optionally bundled with some native components for filing the gaps, as in Tauri. Isn't that essentially Capacitor? https://capacitorjs.com

I guess? Just from looking at the way tauri and capacitor present themselves, capacitor might benefit a lot in dev experience from focus on android and iOS, whereas tauri's primary claim to fame is on the desktop, where it picks up the local descendant of KHTML across a wide range of operating systems.

Re: PWAs wont replace native iOS apps

#208

Post by kgdiem »

alerighi wrote: post #159
fiddlerwoaroof wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I for one would much rather have native mobile apps that use platform-appropriate controls rather than web apps that use whatever some designer came up with. We’ve already lost this battle on computers because of electron, but iOS is nice precisely because there isn’t an easy way to just ship web technology “apps”.

The fact that an app is in the store doesn't mean that uses platform appropriate controls. In fact a lot of applications nowadays are just web app packaged with tools like Ionic, or cross platform applications built with React Native or Flutter that doesn't use "platform-appropriate controls". If most applications are embedding a web browser, or at least part of a web browser (in case of RN), why not just have applic…

> No need to install them, no need to update them, I can just open an URL and they work.

The App Store is a useful distribution mechanism. For better or worse more people seem to be willing to buy an app, search in the App Store, etc.

There have been threads on HN about a discoverability problem for on the web, not that it doesn’t exist for apps too.

I made a one time use website and my only feedback from normal people was that it should be an app…

Re: PWAs wont replace native iOS apps

#209

Post by andix »

burnerthrow008 wrote: post #196
andix wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What the EC wants is more or less what you get with Windows, macOS or Android. Being able to install apps from any source and being able to buy apps from any app store/vendor without them being forced to pay commission/fees to Apple. It doesn't have any connection to "monetization of intellectual property", just look at Windows, Android, macOS, and all other operating systems. iOS can stay closed source, Apple can ke…

> What the EC wants is more or less what you get with Windows, macOS or Android. That’s the what not the why. The why is that they want a tech industry in Europe that’s worthy of the term. > It doesn't have any connection to "monetization of intellectual property", just look at Windows, Android, macOS, and all other operating systems. Yes, look at them. And don’t stop there. Look at game consoles and the Epic store,…

Apple does not charge for "using their SDK". They charge for installing (commercial) applications to devices they produce and sell.

Even if I build an application completely without the Apple SDK, just with open source software, I can't sell it to people without paying the "Apple tax".

Your example VS Code is not related to that at all, because Microsoft doesn't prevent installing applications built with other tools.

Same with the Epic game engine. Windows/Android/etc don't force you to use the Epic game engine for all games built on their platform. You can use any other technology of your choice.

What Apple is doing right now is comparable to a car manufacturer that would only allow you filling up your tank at their own gas stations. For +30% the market price. And a lot of countries would not allow this kind of anti-competitive behaviour.

In the EU for example all car manufacturers need to provide documentation and spare parts to third party shops. So the car manufacturer can't force buyers to rely on their potentially overpriced services, discriminate competitors and prevent the development of a free market.

I know that this kind of "market freedom" is something that doesn't feel right for US citizens.

Re: PWAs wont replace native iOS apps

#210

Post by andix »

threeseed wrote: post #187
andix wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you're completely missing the point. The problem is not access to the SDK, the problem is that Apple is locking down their platform to competitors. They can't sell apps or content without giving a commission to the "gate keeper" Apple. Epic is not one of the biggest device manufacturers. And Microsoft is definitively not locking out third party developers from Windows. Everyone can just sell Windows applicati…

> They can't sell apps or content without giving a commission to the "gate keeper" Apple Again. There isn't a single court or government that has said this is not permitted. Including the EU.

False, that's exactly what the Digital Markets Act is about.

Apple is trying to circumvent it right now with those new fees, and I think this won't hold in court.

https://commission.europa.eu/strategy-and-policy/priorities-...

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