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Toyota to invest $1.3B in Kentucky factory to build battery packs and new EV

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Re: Toyota to invest $1.3B in Kentucky factory to build battery packs and new EV

#201

Post by consumer451 »

belltaco wrote: post #181
anonu wrote: post #10

Similarly, Hyundai building $8bn battery plant outside Savannah, Georgia: https://apnews.com/article/hyundai-georgia-electric-vehicle-...

At least Hyundai hasn't been faking emissions tests like Toyota. https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/commit... Not to mention spending a lot on lobbying against clean air regulations aroun the world https://thedriven.io/2023/05/11/toyota-under-fire-for-anti-c...

As someone who used to be a stalwart fan of Toyota, their behaviour recently is not my favorite.

Re: Toyota to invest $1.3B in Kentucky factory to build battery packs and new EV

#202

Post by seadan83 »

WorldMaker wrote: post #126
seadan83 wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have citations? I can think of alternative & plausible explanations: - the used car industry is just barren post-pandemic. Prices are up and inventory is super low [1] - EVs are generally not that old! Why put a BEV up as a used car when it's just a few years old? The average age of a used car is 6.1 years (according to CBC in Sep-2023) [2]. Further, that 'used car' age is up from 4 years, which further indica…

That CNBC article points out one of the big sea changes in the fast recent jumps from a used car average of 3 years (for decades prior to ~2017) to 4 years (prior to 2019) to 6 years is a big change by rental car companies to hold rental fleets longer. The biggest sea change for rental companies over the last few years has been a switch to a higher balance of BEVs in their fleets. It certainly seems to me to be causa…

Thanks for the reply. Your hypothesis seems more plausible now to me FWIW. Before I would outright agree (in order to be convinced), I'd like to see more evidence/data that used car prices are being driven by low maintenance requirements of EVs and that it is not other factors.

Another thing to consider, the picture is changing quite a bit somewhat recently. The supply crunch is fading, used car prices are coming down [1], and the effects of higher interest rates is taking hold. Would you say those recent trends are consistent with your hypothesis?

[1] https://money.com/used-car-prices-cheaper-tesla-ev/

Re: Toyota to invest $1.3B in Kentucky factory to build battery packs and new EV

#203

Post by erikaww »

anonu wrote: post #193
downrightmike wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its because the south is fairly young and impoverished, so cheaper to mfg there. Down vote, but that's the reason.

Savannah and Brunswick are huge car export ports because many manufacturing facilities are spread out between South Carolina and Georgia: Volvo, Mercedes, BMW, Honda, KIA to name a few. These ports are also the largest on the Eastern seaboard of the US. So access to shipping is probably one of the main reasons. Also major demographic shifts to the Southeastern part of the US help supply the labor pool. Georgia and So…

On this impoverished statistic: does it account for more access to social services?

California is much more likely to have better social services and AFAIK it is less violent in poor neighborhoods than southern states

I would much rather be poor in NYC than Georgia

Re: Toyota to invest $1.3B in Kentucky factory to build battery packs and new EV

#204

Post by riku_iki »

katbyte wrote: post #200
riku_iki wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are laws in effect already: https://www.gov.ca.gov/2020/09/23/governor-newsom-announces-...

If it’s anything like Canada it still allows for hybrid. Banning everything but BEV will never happen because Bev will never work for a small subset of users

they have similar law in Canada: https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/canada-electric-vehicles-20....

Re: Toyota to invest $1.3B in Kentucky factory to build battery packs and new EV

#205

Post by tguvot »

pie420 wrote: post #157
tenpies wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Correct. Toyota's bet is simple: what makes rational economic, environmental, and good-policy sense for most locales is not an EV. It's a hybrid. And it's a bet that's working well so far: https://fortune.com/asia/2023/12/28/toyota-hybrid-cars-sales...

yet they refuse to build hybrids in large numbers. RAV4 primes and Prius primes are insanely difficult to get at or near MSRP. Toyota is saying that Hybrids make the most sense, but still use hybrid as an upsell for a higher trim, and thus only makes a fraction of their cars as hybrids. If >50% of their vehicles were hybrids, i'd be ecstatic and would agree with them, but currently it's just whataboutism and misdirec…

they don't refuse to build. they fail to match production to demand due to logistical reasons. factory discussed here it's literally solution for production problems that they have.

when i was buying hybrid volvo a few years ago and talked to dealership boss, i was told that volvo got surprised by demand and they simply don't have enough battery packs in order build more.

and things like battery pack for car, it's not something that you can just ramp up capacity from today to tomorrow.

Re: Toyota to invest $1.3B in Kentucky factory to build battery packs and new EV

#206

Post by tguvot »

tempestn wrote: post #190
carabiner wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Easy to catch up when EV market is shrinking. Toyota is right, gas hybrids are the future. Awesome range, you don't have to own a home to charge one, no problems in cold weather.

The thing about hybrids is that while you get the benefits of a gas engine (not needing to charge), you also get most of the combined drawbacks of ICE cars and EVs. You still need to go to the gas station, change the oil, maintain the belts and filters, etc. If you're mostly driving in EV mode, stale gas could even be an issue (though that's probably not a huge concern for most). But you've also still got electric mo…

>If you're mostly driving in EV mode, stale gas could even be an issue (though that's probably not a huge concern for most).

volvo hybrids force engine operation in case gas wasn't refilled/used for too long.

Re: Toyota to invest $1.3B in Kentucky factory to build battery packs and new EV

#207

Post by radiator »

brandonagr2 wrote: post #27
itsoktocry wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> For context: Tesla is guiding for $10+B a year capex spending for the next 3 years. I know people around these parts think that Tesla has uncovered some magical factory building ability, but can you even consider the fact that maybe Toyota knows what they are doing? > Toyota is still under-investing in EV. $1.3B is nothing. This is one factory.

What about Toyota's plans makes you think they will ever catch up to everyone else with EVs?

If you mean stop manufacturing Internal Combustion Engines, Toyota have said many times, they do not intend to "catch up to everyone else" with EVs. They have the luxury of sitting and watching their competition leave the market, thus leaving Toyota's road to great profits wide open.

Re: Toyota to invest $1.3B in Kentucky factory to build battery packs and new EV

#209

Post by tguvot »

WorldMaker wrote: post #126
seadan83 wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have citations? I can think of alternative & plausible explanations: - the used car industry is just barren post-pandemic. Prices are up and inventory is super low [1] - EVs are generally not that old! Why put a BEV up as a used car when it's just a few years old? The average age of a used car is 6.1 years (according to CBC in Sep-2023) [2]. Further, that 'used car' age is up from 4 years, which further indica…

That CNBC article points out one of the big sea changes in the fast recent jumps from a used car average of 3 years (for decades prior to ~2017) to 4 years (prior to 2019) to 6 years is a big change by rental car companies to hold rental fleets longer. The biggest sea change for rental companies over the last few years has been a switch to a higher balance of BEVs in their fleets. It certainly seems to me to be causa…

so, about market for tesla battery replacement: https://www.reddit.com/r/RealTesla/comments/1akc3bz/wifes_20...

Re: Toyota to invest $1.3B in Kentucky factory to build battery packs and new EV

#210

Post by trgn »

Gibbon1 wrote: post #195
trgn wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Policy makers well understand the economy can tolerate a lot of disruption If I understand you correctly, this is my reading of the pandemic as well. We suddenly all realized there is a _ton_ of slack in the system. On the individual level, but as well as societal.

Yeah exactly. Instead of the economy being a delicately balanced machine that you don't dare touch. It turned out you can push it really hard and it'll hold together. At that point the idea that if you change industrial policies the whole thing will collapse and it'll be your fault went out the window. Policy makers have vastly more confidence in 2024 than they did in 2019.

Thanks, makes sense. Good evolution too
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