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Goodbye non-KISS appliances

willbush.dev

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Re: Goodbye non-KISS appliances

#201

Post by mewpmewp2 »

arter4 wrote: post #192
mewpmewp2 wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In fridge it takes images from different angles, and different floors to make sure it is possible to identify all the items that exist in that fridge. If you don't like certain foods, you can just customise the prompt that fridge sends to OpenAI. You can customise it through a web app or mobile app. > you would have to tell your fridge you're Jew or Muslim or lactose intolerant or diabetic. Don't you see an issue wit…

Sure but it's something more for barely any actual advantage. I accept that when I Google something Google and maybe other companies know what I searched, because Googling things is useful. I cannot bring an encyclopaedia and a detailed map of the whole world with me all the time, so it's a tradeoff I can accept. I accept that, on the rare occasions I turn geolocation, someone will know where I am, because if I do tu…

Honestly you are just describing to me more exciting features. The correlations with potential illnesses, etc. Have all of your data piped into single location to use AI to improve your health.

Re: Goodbye non-KISS appliances

#202

Post by coldtea »

darreninthenet wrote: post #189
coldtea wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I too really have no idea how to reply to this without sounding like an ass so apologies in advance. Well, our parents, and for the younger, our grandparents too, and us, have managed to do fine for like 60+ years of using fridges without an fridge door alarm. Fun fact: for an alarm for when you are away for days, and you want to know if the fridge power went off and back on in between, you can freeze a jar of water…

They did fine for many years without mobile phones, cars, aircraft and computers... your point is irrelevant. It's just a handy extra to have I really don't see why people find my phone pinging me if the door is left open so offensive :-D

>They did fine for many years without mobile phones, cars, aircraft and computers... your point is irrelevant.

Nah, rather it's the comparison that is off.

Without cars, for example, transportation was slow and constrainted, affecting commerce, work, and lots of other things. Whether good or bad (since there are negatives too) the introduction of the car was a huge change.

Network connected fridges? The incovenience they solve is so rare and small that most people don't give a damn about, not to mention the incovenience from their assorted crappy controls, the privacy issues, and other such factors, can be even higher and more constant.

Might as well compare the invention of fire with the Shake Weight.

Re: Goodbye non-KISS appliances

#203

Post by berkes »

omnicognate wrote: post #129
berkes wrote: post #122

I've never owned a refrigerator with odor removing, ice makers, or double doors. Is all this fancy stuff typical American? Because over here, northern Europe, only the high end refrigerators have ice makers, for example. Why would one ever want that?

My fridge craps ice and I never again want one that doesn't. It eliminates faffing with trays/bags (or buying the stuff) and ensures you'll never go to make a G&T and discover, horror of horrors, you're out of ice. I need my fridge to connect to the internet about as much as I need my oven to operate as a fax machine, though. (Also Northern Europe btw.)

The two reasons I never want an ice-dispenser, is that one, it's rediculously expensive. I would never pay hundreds of euro's for a standalone machine that makes ice: for that price I'll gladly keep fiddling with trays in the freezer or just drink my drinks without ice. Why pay that markup when it's embedded?

And second, it's the single point of failure of the entire fridge. Everything else, from the rubbers to the pump will last longer and be easily repairable. I'm convinced it's mainly there because producers of fridges know it obsoletes the entire fridge faster. That without these fragile "addons" the machine might just last for years or decades. During which this family does not buy a new one.

Re: Goodbye non-KISS appliances

#204

Post by mewpmewp2 »

rglullis wrote: post #195
mewpmewp2 wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> by the way, my home is full of microphones and video cameras which are always on and used to power my digital assistant Everyone are already walking around with smart phones that are perfectly able to do all of that. > I'm not. My phone, laptop and computers all run software that I get to install down to the OS (Linux, /e/OS), and I would never install something like the ChatGPT app on my phone. Fine if you do that…

> Everyone are already walking around with smart phones that are perfectly able to do all of that. Being able to do it is not the same as actually doing it. The rest of your argument, sorry but I can not respond without feeling angry. It just feels like the rationalizations of a selfish, too-clever-by-half neomaniac.

> Being able to do it is not the same as actually doing it.

You could have smart devices similarly only react or go to active mode when you press a button on your watch etc.

> The rest of your argument, sorry but I can not respond without feeling angry. It just feels like the rationalizations of a selfish, too-clever-by-half neomaniac.

Okay, I agree that your words can describe me well, but what do you think the end game for humans or tech is? Why do we exist here? Are we just here to reproduce over and over again with no change? And if there's always change, aren't you curious what will happen in the future?

Re: Goodbye non-KISS appliances

#205

Post by gingerlime »

Arbortheus wrote: post #7
msadowski wrote: post #5

I’m about to buy all the appliances to a new place in Europe and could use some more horror stories and learn which brands to avoid. So far I’ve been told to stay away from Samsung ovens. Anyone has any regrets on appliances?

If you can afford it, get Miele or specifically the Bosch models that are made in Germany (many lower-end Bosch models are contracted out to e.g. Turkey, and not quite as good).

Yes and no. First it should be a German Miele. But in general, new Mieles aren’t as good as old ones. Across the board. Washers, dryers, dishwashers. The only benefit they offer is energy efficiency (at least based on brochures). If I had to buy again, I would opt for second hand refurbished Miele/Bosch/Siemens with at least 10 years of age. Where I live there are lots of second hand shops that even offer warranty.

Our fridge however is Japanese Panasonic. Not a common choice in Europe but it’s been great so far. Zero maintenance. No frost. Has some minimal digital control but we don’t touch it. YMMV.

Re: Goodbye non-KISS appliances

#206

Post by bell-cot »

darreninthenet wrote: post #193
bell-cot wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd say a temperature alarm - if I happen to feel I need one - should be a physically separate little thing. With it's own programmable temperature range. Usually it's in the fridge. But during a cold spell, I can adjust and move it to a spot where I'm worried the pipes might freeze. Or turn it into a "is the A/C working?" watchdog during a heat wave. Or, I can buy several to cover all those. But they're all one make…

I said it was handy not something I would go out of my way to get... the fridge has it so it's useful. I don't understand why so many people on here are so offended by a useful feature that from most people's perspective is just a feature the fridge has rather than one they shopped for.

True, and if you're stuck with a fridge that's hooked to the internet regardless...

OTOH, this item's context is "KISS, because the complex products are hot & steamy piles of failure modes, all eager to show themselves off". From that PoV, the alarm features kinda sound like yet more things to break down.

Re: Goodbye non-KISS appliances

#207

Post by vladvasiliu »

ThePowerOfFuet wrote: post #175
vladvasiliu wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> all make some no-frills models that can save both money and frustration Actually, those features seem to have become so common that they don't seem to command a price premium anymore. My washing machine was the cheapest that ticked all the boxes I wanted (most importantly size), and it still has some kind of wifi thingy. Ditto for my dishwasher. They both work perfectly well without any connection to anything, and…

> They both work perfectly well without any connection to anything, and not once have they even tried to get me to connect them. Is there an open Wi-Fi network nearby?

Not that I know of, and you actually have to go out of your way to turn the Wifi on and connect. They have indicator lights that are off.

And it's not like they're TVs, I doubt they'd be able to show me any add on their 7-segment displays. So I'm not sure what would be the benefit of trying to connect to a network and let LG know that I've washed some clothes.

Re: Goodbye non-KISS appliances

#208

Post by arter4 »

mewpmewp2 wrote: post #204
rglullis wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Everyone are already walking around with smart phones that are perfectly able to do all of that. Being able to do it is not the same as actually doing it. The rest of your argument, sorry but I can not respond without feeling angry. It just feels like the rationalizations of a selfish, too-clever-by-half neomaniac.

> Being able to do it is not the same as actually doing it. You could have smart devices similarly only react or go to active mode when you press a button on your watch etc. > The rest of your argument, sorry but I can not respond without feeling angry. It just feels like the rationalizations of a selfish, too-clever-by-half neomaniac. Okay, I agree that your words can describe me well, but what do you think the end…

Not OP but, regardless of why we exist here, change is not always good.

Change simply means that something becomes something else. It isn't inherently good.

For example, now I walk with both legs, but if a car hits me, I might stay on a wheelchair for some time, which is change, but not a welcome one. Before you say "this is a strawman argument", think about technologies like "cloud seeding", which are supposed to enforce specific weather conditions by spraying certain substances in the air (not clear on the details). This sounds like a cool idea, but is it, when some studies suggest this is dangerous for the environment? Shouldn't we (as humans) think about the effects before embracing change?

So, to me, change can be good or bad (or, often, a combination). If the goal of human life was change, it should probably be "change for good". Which is complicated - what is good and what is bad? Who gets to decide? Can I know in advance? What if something is eventually to be bad, can we get back? But that's how life is, no matter the end goal: complicated.

Re: Goodbye non-KISS appliances

#209

Post by bryanrasmussen »

ThePowerOfFuet wrote: post #178
bryanrasmussen wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We bought a new stove about 6 years ago, basically had to get induction stove top because that was all that was available. I bought one of the more expensive ones. That stove top broke after a couple months, but luckily we're in Denmark where the warranty is a year, and when something gets repaired like that it's also under warranty for a year (actually sometimes more). We got that stove top replaced about every 4-6…

> That stove top broke after a couple months, but luckily we're in Denmark where the warranty is a year You may or may not be a fan of the Euro, but EU law is two year warranty for consumers.

maybe it's two years here too then, haven't kept track.

Re: Goodbye non-KISS appliances

#210

Post by cqqxo4zV46cp »

arter4 wrote: post #52
brodsky wrote: post #25

When we upgraded our appliances, the "smart" or "wifi-enabled" ones were specifically avoided like the plague. "Dumb" appliances - especially fridges, for some reason - are becoming hard to come by, but they do exist. Electrolux, KitchenAid, even LG all make some no-frills models that can save both money and frustration. Hopefully those companies continue serving the "luddite techie" market.

Yes, I agree. I'm not a luddite per se - heck, I make a living out of making stuff talk to one another on a network. But I don't get the appeal, from a customer standpoint, of having all physical objects talk to you or to the Internet. Like, why? I get it when it comes to alarm systems. Being able to get a notification when someone breaks in is nice, because the alarm system is mostly doing its job when you're not at…

I control my lights with my voice practically all the time. It’s easily my primary mode of changing the state of my lights. Whenever I travel it only takes an hour tops after entering a hotel for me to get annoyed by whatever command I’ve yelled out being met with silence.

I say this because maybe it goes to show that different people are different. Maybe someone gets use out of the silly camera that shows them the inside of the fridge. It sounds ridiculous to me, but evidently my lights sound ridiculous to you.

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