Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Apple's bad faith 27% tax on web purchases

twitter.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

201–210 of 408 posts

Re: Apple's bad faith 27% tax on web purchases

#201

Post by incrudible »

readyplayernull wrote: post #164

The infamous 30% goes back to the time when there where no app stores and we, mainly game developers, had to publish our games thru publishers who used to take a large percent of income, 50% or higher, up to 70% I heard; in order for app stores to become competitive they set the fee to 30% which was an incredibly great deal for us! It seemed to me that the democratization of game publishing finally arrived at that po…

The 30% goes back to retail markup, i.e. the what the seller who buys and physically stocks your game could expect to keep for gross profit.

Of course digital store fronts do not have many of the costs associated with physical retail, but there is still value in them bringing the customer to you.

Re: Apple's bad faith 27% tax on web purchases

#202

Post by themagician »

readyplayernull wrote: post #164

The infamous 30% goes back to the time when there where no app stores and we, mainly game developers, had to publish our games thru publishers who used to take a large percent of income, 50% or higher, up to 70% I heard; in order for app stores to become competitive they set the fee to 30% which was an incredibly great deal for us! It seemed to me that the democratization of game publishing finally arrived at that po…

Epic used to charge insane fees for the Unreal Engine too.

They really only changed their tune when Fortnite became so successful they could print money via skins.

Re: Apple's bad faith 27% tax on web purchases

#203

Post by s1artibartfast »

FreeTrade wrote: post #174

A law requiring hardware manufacturers to allow owners to run any software on their device would solve a lot of these Apple problems over time. Thats the root of the problem. Apple has a monopoly on the social status associated with their devices, and leverages the monopoly in many unscrupulous and toxic ways. I consider Apple the most cynical and toxic of all the tech giants.

you would also have to require them to ship software tools and actively support development by those that want to use their devices.

Re: Apple's bad faith 27% tax on web purchases

#204

Post by TillE »

Someone wrote: post #140
lolinder wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This argument has been repeatedly made over the past 24 hours with a lot of emotion but little justification. The judge forced Apple to unbundle their payments. Apple's solution to that is probably overly restrictive. And I suspect that you're right that 27% is too large a cut to survive. With both of those points granted, though, your argument seems to be that Apple should be obliged to host, distribute, and market…

> And I suspect that you're right that 27% is too large a cut to survive. I don’t see that being killed soon. The 3% for payment processors is a lot higher than the 0,2% or 0,3% limits for debet/credit card payments within the EU ( https://eur-lex.europa.eu/EN/legal-content/summary/fees-for-... , and AFAIK no payment processor decided to leave the EU market because they couldn’t earn money anymore. There also is ‘pri…

That regulation seems completely irrelevant, PayPal charges much more than that in Europe.

Re: Apple's bad faith 27% tax on web purchases

#205

Post by incrudible »

novagameco wrote: post #167
cesarvarela wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would the iPhone be as successful if it wasn't reasonable?

Well the iPhone is a worse device than a flagship android already, so I think it would still remain popular because of the fashion aspect of being an apple user

Worse by some arbitrary metric that supports your point of view.

Re: Apple's bad faith 27% tax on web purchases

#206

Post by s1artibartfast »

arrosenberg wrote: post #178
dkonofalski wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not true in the slightest, though. Sony, Microsoft, Nintendo, and Steam all take 30% for distribution and hosting, same as Apple. It's not artificially high if it's in line with the rest of the tech industry and if you want to try and claim that it's because of some monopoly, vertical or otherwise, then you have to explain why the other storefronts are also monopolies. It's not a monopoly. Other phones and eco…

> Sony, Microsoft, Nintendo, and Steam all take 30% for distribution and hosting, same as Apple. > It's not a monopoly. I believe you have accurately described a cartel, however.

Cartel =/= same rate. It requires more than just price matching. this is why gas stations and grocery stores aren't cartels either.

Re: Apple's bad faith 27% tax on web purchases

#207

Post by jojobas »

themagician wrote: post #202
readyplayernull wrote: post #164

The infamous 30% goes back to the time when there where no app stores and we, mainly game developers, had to publish our games thru publishers who used to take a large percent of income, 50% or higher, up to 70% I heard; in order for app stores to become competitive they set the fee to 30% which was an incredibly great deal for us! It seemed to me that the democratization of game publishing finally arrived at that po…

Epic used to charge insane fees for the Unreal Engine too. They really only changed their tune when Fortnite became so successful they could print money via skins.

You don't have to use Unreal Engine, there are many others and you can write your own. Distribution to apple devices requires using apple's store, which is really the core issue here. If IBM/Intel/MS could pull this off in the 80s we'd still live in a stone age.

Re: Apple's bad faith 27% tax on web purchases

#208

Post by i_love_cookies »

aurareturn wrote: post #176
johnnyanmac wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>that they will happily charge 30% once they have more marketshare. I don't know. They haven't done as much with UE or any other tools, outside of actually charging for non-games (I'm honestly surprised that the Mandelorian was able to be made with no kick back to Epic at all). Historically Epic has been relatively lenient for how it taxes developers. Say what you want about Sweeny and Fortnite and the Games Store, b…

They're developer friendly because they're trying to get marketshare. They're competing with market leader in Steam which charges 30%. Don't think for a second that they wouldn't charge 30% once they get enough market power. In fact, in the Apple lawsuit, it was revealed that the Epic Game Store was operating on a $300-$400m loss in order to acquire marketshare. Epic has to increase commission fees in order to break…

[dead]

Re: Apple's bad faith 27% tax on web purchases

#209

Post by selectodude »

arrosenberg wrote: post #178
dkonofalski wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not true in the slightest, though. Sony, Microsoft, Nintendo, and Steam all take 30% for distribution and hosting, same as Apple. It's not artificially high if it's in line with the rest of the tech industry and if you want to try and claim that it's because of some monopoly, vertical or otherwise, then you have to explain why the other storefronts are also monopolies. It's not a monopoly. Other phones and eco…

> Sony, Microsoft, Nintendo, and Steam all take 30% for distribution and hosting, same as Apple. > It's not a monopoly. I believe you have accurately described a cartel, however.

Epic has a game store charging 12 percent and nobody seems to care much about it.

Re: Apple's bad faith 27% tax on web purchases

#210

Post by jojobas »

s1artibartfast wrote: post #203
FreeTrade wrote: post #174

A law requiring hardware manufacturers to allow owners to run any software on their device would solve a lot of these Apple problems over time. Thats the root of the problem. Apple has a monopoly on the social status associated with their devices, and leverages the monopoly in many unscrupulous and toxic ways. I consider Apple the most cynical and toxic of all the tech giants.

you would also have to require them to ship software tools and actively support development by those that want to use their devices.

Yes, break them up and require hardware-apple to treat software-apple on the same terms as any other software vendor. Mandated unlockable bootloader, of course.
Post reply on HN