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Gmail and Yahoo’s 2024 inbox protections and what they mean for email programs

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Re: Gmail and Yahoo’s 2024 inbox protections and what they mean for email programs

#201

Post by winddude »

frereubu wrote: post #128
dexwiz wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its 5000/day for marketing, and if you are sending 5000 emails a day, you probably should have unsubscribe links. https://support.google.com/mail/answer/81126#requirements-5k You also need a link, not just list-unsubscribe, and it is specifically for marketing emails. In my experience, Google is pretty accurate in figuring out transactional versus marketing. They don't tell their heuristics, but you don't think engin…

Google routinely flags my genuine AWS invoices as possibly dangerous, despite me routinely clicking the "this isn't dangerous, I know what it is" button. So yes, I think it's totally possible that engineers who build web crawlers can't build reliable email classifiers.

I dunno, runaway costs on AWS is very dangerous.

Re: Gmail and Yahoo’s 2024 inbox protections and what they mean for email programs

#202

Post by hedora »

cmg wrote: post #164
frereubu wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google routinely flags my genuine AWS invoices as possibly dangerous, despite me routinely clicking the "this isn't dangerous, I know what it is" button. So yes, I think it's totally possible that engineers who build web crawlers can't build reliable email classifiers.

And somehow I still get regular “H0ME_DEPOT Order CONFRIMATION” junk landing at the top of my Gmail inbox.

That reminds me: totallylegit2022@hotmail.com is holding my USPS package at the warehouse.

Re: Gmail and Yahoo’s 2024 inbox protections and what they mean for email programs

#203

Post by blowski »

stubish wrote: post #59
MaxGabriel wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

100% open rate on transactional emails feels too high to me. Something like an e-commerce purchase might kick off multiple emails (purchase made, shipped, arrived), none of which the user opens

Kicking off a chain of emails a user cannot easily opt out of could well be the sort of emails users want to lose. There probably should be a one-click 'stop emailing me' button, for this and future purchases. Which would be a support burden, yes.

We’ve received your order … we’ve taken payment for your order … your order has left our warehouse … your order has arrived in another warehouse … your order is with a delivery driver … all for a $5 cable.

Re: Gmail and Yahoo’s 2024 inbox protections and what they mean for email programs

#204

Post by hiatus »

KingOfCoders wrote: post #135
dexwiz wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its 5000/day for marketing, and if you are sending 5000 emails a day, you probably should have unsubscribe links. https://support.google.com/mail/answer/81126#requirements-5k You also need a link, not just list-unsubscribe, and it is specifically for marketing emails. In my experience, Google is pretty accurate in figuring out transactional versus marketing. They don't tell their heuristics, but you don't think engin…

"transactional versus marketing" In my last big job we had big discussions about what is marketing. What can marketing pack into a transactional without it becoming a marketing email? Banner? A tagline in the signature? Testimonials? Also - b/c Germany - big discussions with legal on that topic.

For US companies, the FTC has some guidance on transactional vs marketing, including commingling of the two. https://www.ftc.gov/business-guidance/resources/can-spam-act...

Re: Gmail and Yahoo’s 2024 inbox protections and what they mean for email programs

#205

Post by hedora »

> Gmail and Yahoo are getting serious about spam monitoring and senders will need to ensure they’re keeping below a set spam rate threshold.

Does anyone know what this sentence means? Is this “the user said this is spam”, or “the gmail spam filter false positives 10% of the time; don’t be part of the 10%, or it’ll permaban you”?

Re: Gmail and Yahoo’s 2024 inbox protections and what they mean for email programs

#206

Post by dboreham »

KingOfCoders wrote: post #135
dexwiz wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its 5000/day for marketing, and if you are sending 5000 emails a day, you probably should have unsubscribe links. https://support.google.com/mail/answer/81126#requirements-5k You also need a link, not just list-unsubscribe, and it is specifically for marketing emails. In my experience, Google is pretty accurate in figuring out transactional versus marketing. They don't tell their heuristics, but you don't think engin…

"transactional versus marketing" In my last big job we had big discussions about what is marketing. What can marketing pack into a transactional without it becoming a marketing email? Banner? A tagline in the signature? Testimonials? Also - b/c Germany - big discussions with legal on that topic.

Uh. The answer to this is easy and obvious, unless you are trying to force marketing content into a transaction email.

Re: Gmail and Yahoo’s 2024 inbox protections and what they mean for email programs

#207

Post by explaininjs »

darylteo wrote: post #108
jeffparsons wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> you don't think engineers who build web crawlers cannot build email classifiers? We're talking about Google here. It doesn't matter that they have lots of clever people working there; they still occasionally get/guess things wrong, and if you're the unlucky too-small-to-even-notice outfit that happens to get squished by Google today, there's seldom much you can do about it.

Exactly... Outlook by Microsoft is notorious for being very heavy handed with emails, requiring sites to put warnings to users to whitelist their domains so that they receive invoices or notifications.

At this point with outlook it’s pretty much guaranteed that any important “you just paid a ton of money here is the asset you bought” email (show/bus/etc tickets) will go straight to spam. I check spam before I look in the non-“Focused” inbox.

Re: Gmail and Yahoo’s 2024 inbox protections and what they mean for email programs

#208

Post by jeromegv »

pests wrote: post #100
mullingitover wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If unsubscribing requires even two clicks I always flag it as spam. The rule is one-click to unsubscribe and I ruthlessly enforce it. Make it their problem.

I tried that once with Nextdoor. They will group their mailings into different lists. The unsubscribe button only removes you from that list. To disable them all is 30+ clicks on the site once logged in. It's horrible.

Facebook too, unsubscribe is just a single of one of their hundred marketing emails.

Re: Gmail and Yahoo’s 2024 inbox protections and what they mean for email programs

#209

Post by nulbyte »

hedora wrote: post #205

> Gmail and Yahoo are getting serious about spam monitoring and senders will need to ensure they’re keeping below a set spam rate threshold. Does anyone know what this sentence means? Is this “the user said this is spam”, or “the gmail spam filter false positives 10% of the time; don’t be part of the 10%, or it’ll permaban you”?

In my experience, it means nothing. Most of the spam I get to my Gmail account comes from other Gmail users using Gmail, and I don't believe Google will do anything to hold themselves accountable.

Re: Gmail and Yahoo’s 2024 inbox protections and what they mean for email programs

#210

Post by boplicity »

pests wrote: post #82
TheCycoONE wrote: post #25

DKIM, SPF, and DMARC are old hat and implemented by anyone serious for years. What's buried in this article is the required https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/rfc8058 support for one-click unsubscribe posts. I don't see many messages in my inbox yet with that.

I've seen a perverse dark pattern on one click unsubscribe. The page you land at has a button that lets you resubscribe! It looks non-obvious you've already unsubscribed and it looks like the regular two-click flow needing to enter your email address to confirm. Very sneaky.

> I've seen a perverse dark pattern on one click unsubscribe.

The new requirement specifically sidesteps this, by making it possible for the email client to send a POST request directly. No need to visit the website at all; just click a button in the email client. In Gmail, senders that have this implemented now have a big blue UNSUBSCRIBE button next to their email address at the top of the message.

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