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IT employment grew by just 700 jobs in 2023

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Re: IT employment grew by just 700 jobs in 2023

#201

Elon showed with Twitter how you don't need hordes of engineers to run a company. He laid off 90% of the staff and still the website is doing alright (at least engineering wise). More engineers lead to more useless bullshit being created(like at Google). A lean mean team seems the way to go.

The smaller staff may be ok for maintaining an existing Twitter, with feature tweaks, but could you build a Twitter up from scratch with the amount of people they have now?

Re: IT employment grew by just 700 jobs in 2023

#202
post #84
post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same. I work as an SWE at a non-FAANG, non-tech Fortune 100 company. We already had an IT staff in India and would hire consultants in India, but this has been accelerating over the past year - virtually all hires or new consulting contracts have been in India. Some of the SWEs in the US are even being put under PMs in India.

My company is actually doing mostly Europe and ex-US North America

Yeah seeing a lot of Canadian and Mexico hires.

Mexico City, especially -- general consensus is that the level of expertise is good, it's not hard to find a Spanish speaker in the US, better cultural fits, and the timezones overlap better; MXC is on Central Time. Not India-level cheap, but competitive enough.

Canada is even better in that sense, but at a higher price.

NAFTA TN visas are also attractive there, too. No H1B nonsense, and can easily bring personnel over for short (~3 year) tours.

Disclaimer: USA-ian of Hispanic extraction in Canada, so I follow these gigs reasonably closely.

Re: IT employment grew by just 700 jobs in 2023

#203
post #23

That confirms my anecdotal experience. At times I felt I was losing my mind with all the "record low unemployment" and "soft landing" stories in the press. 2021 and 2022 felt like great years in terms of the job market. 2023 felt horrible.

It’s still horrible and lots of people at large companies are worried of getting laid off any second.

I am, and several friends in F500s and/or Big4 consulting are too. Esp. the consultants, where they're waiting for the other shoe to drop every quarter.

Re: IT employment grew by just 700 jobs in 2023

#204
post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, but I would be interested in the gross income of IT vs other occupations and how that is impacting overall economy. For example, if you drop 2 IT jobs, but each one is 150k, but you create 4x 60k jobs, it looks like you added 2 jobs, but in reality, you removed 60k worth of payroll income.

According to the latest jobs report, average wages are up 4.1% in 2023.

where would they be if wages kept up with inflation, or value generated?

4.1% sounds nice, but inflation has been at, what, 7% over the last couple of years?

Re: IT employment grew by just 700 jobs in 2023

#205
post #57

The cognitive dissonance I'm getting from reading the comments here is pretty staggering. Where I live (The Netherlands) me and every IT person I know is getting absolutely hounded by recruiters. As an additional anecdote I'll add that I've just switched jobs to a start-up on very favorable terms and the recruitment process basically amounted to being cold called and asked "hey you wanna work here?". Can anyone here…

A bartender makes same as a software engineer in NL

if I could make IT-level money bartending in the US I'd jump back to that tomorrow.

Re: IT employment grew by just 700 jobs in 2023

#206
post #190
post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this is very unfair. In the few months that I was looking, I put in more than 300 hours of study. It wasn't superficial and I didn't attempt to memorize anything — I wanted to understand fundamental techniques, and put a considerable amount of effort in to doing this, treating it as if it were my job. Nobody owes me anything but that doesn't mean that I'm not allowed to point out that this is the weakest I've…

> I put in more than 300 hours of study. It wasn't superficial and I didn't attempt to memorize anything — I wanted to understand fundamental techniques, and put a considerable amount of effort in to doing this, treating it as if it were my job. If you landed a job, do you think this new ability to implement a CS 101 data structure would let you keep it? Help in your performance in a measurable way? This is what I me…

I did land a job making applications for an HFT firm and while I don't think that being able to implement data structures or write my own algorithms is necessarily what will allow me to keep this job, recently I somewhat regularly use the skills I pick up doing competitive programming exercises in my workplaces. Therefore, my answer to your question about whether it will help my performance in a measurable way is: yes.

Re: IT employment grew by just 700 jobs in 2023

#207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be fair, I probably make the same as a bartender here in the US. Blows my mind that people are easily making $120,000+.

[flagged]

According to Indeed, for the high end of bartending in my state, I make less. So I guess I really suck at programming.

Re: IT employment grew by just 700 jobs in 2023

#208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Twitter could have fired nobody and the advertising revenue would have still declined, those two things were mostly unrelated. I've never personally believed in Twitter as a business model, so you're preaching to the choir there. As far as innovation, though, Elon has stated he wants X to be the 'everything app' similar to whatever it is they use in China, in particular payments.

> Twitter could have fired nobody and the advertising revenue would have still declined, those two things were mostly unrelated. Unrelated in the short term. In the long term, I disagree. Twitter is not that interesting of an app that users are flocking to it, nor it is so fundamentally different from any of its competitors and essential as a social network, that it would have a captive audience. Twitter user base pe…

I'm not trying to argue that Twitter will be successful. Only that none of their current problems (eg, profits) were caused by the layoffs.

Re: IT employment grew by just 700 jobs in 2023

#209
post #71

Can anyone explain how the 700 number makes any sense? The analysis referenced by the article: https://e-janco.com/career/employmentdata.html#p7TP3c2_3 The table "Change In IT Job Market Size - December 2023" seems to indicate that 5.5k jobs were added to the 'job market' in 2023, contradicting what's being said. (Which isn't even representative of total employment in the sector, only the open job postings for the se…

Maybe it is net new jobs, once you account for the massive layoffs in 2023.

Re: IT employment grew by just 700 jobs in 2023

#210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

According to the latest jobs report, average wages are up 4.1% in 2023.

where would they be if wages kept up with inflation, or value generated? 4.1% sounds nice, but inflation has been at, what, 7% over the last couple of years?

https://tradingeconomics.com/united-states/wage-growth
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