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'Like we were lesser humans': Gaza boys, men recall Israeli arrest, torture

aljazeera.com

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Re: 'Like we were lesser humans': Gaza boys, men recall Israeli arrest, torture

#201

Post by lesuorac »

anovick wrote: post #180
hiddencost wrote: post #70

My political awareness was forged by the 9/11 terrorist attacks and the American response. The core lesson: the point of a terrorist attack is to trigger an over reaction. America wildly over reacted and became fundamentally hostile to Arab and Muslim people. This reaction led to some of the most successful recruiting of radicals in generations. Israel's response to this crisis seems to have failed to learn from that…

One big difference: Israel lives by the border of Gaza, right next to the terrorists that forged the October 7th attack. Meanwhile, the US had no border with the belligerent terrorist organization's societies (Iraq, Syria, ME). Would the US allow a terrorist organization that both DECLARES, has CAPABILITIES to, and HAS DEMONSTRATED INTENT to harm its citizens to live by its borders, and threaten with continued assaul…

Do you think the cartels have never kidnapped an american citizen or killed DEA agents?

Re: 'Like we were lesser humans': Gaza boys, men recall Israeli arrest, torture

#203

Post by shashashasha___ »

dang wrote: post #4
ameminator wrote: post #3

I honestly don't think this subject should be on here. I don't think it's possible for a coherent or respectful or even useful conversation to happen here. I haven't seen any conversation about this topic that hadn't gone to hell.

Yes, you're of course right—and at the same time, if I ask myself how to follow HN's core principle [1] in relation to this topic, I can't see "don't touch it at all" as right either. It may be an impossible quandary—but it's not in the spirit of this place to take an easy way out; or to put it differently, the easy way out (if one exists) is not in the spirit of this place. What does "curiosity" mean in a context li…

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Re: 'Like we were lesser humans': Gaza boys, men recall Israeli arrest, torture

#204

Post by kamikazeturtles »

mupuff1234 wrote: post #172
dfxm12 wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

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Statistically that seems quite improbable as Jews are only 0.2% of the worlds population vs the Arab and Muslim world (which majority supports Palestinians) Edit: not to mention the CCP and Russia taking an anti Israel stance as well, both known to conduct massive online campaigns to align with their own agendas.

There are a lot of zionist christians and publications are much safer when reporting from a pro-Israel bias. Most muslims don't speak english so if a muslim is commenting about this topic, they're probably one of the few million in one of the english speaking countries.

Re: 'Like we were lesser humans': Gaza boys, men recall Israeli arrest, torture

#205

Post by liorsbg »

LtWorf wrote: post #146
lossolo wrote: post #54

Israel has also been imposing apartheid on Palestinians for years, a fact that high-ranking officials themselves admit [1][2], and which human rights reports confirm[3]. [1] https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/sep/06/israel-imposin... [2] https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2023-08-13/ty-article/ex... [3] https://www.hrw.org/report/2021/04/27/threshold-crossed/isra...

It seems that in Israel there are (very small) quotas for non jewish people to be admitted at university. I've met muslim israeli who have learnt italian to go to study medicine in italy (where there is a notoriously extremely difficult entrance exam) because all of this was easier than going to a local university.

Not sure why you would write this, please research.

1. There is actually affirmative action for Arab Israelis.

2. A lot of Israelis (Jewish and Arab alike) go study medicine abroad. You need a near perfect score on the SAT-equivalent exam to get into med school in Israel (not enough spots, too many applicants).

Re: 'Like we were lesser humans': Gaza boys, men recall Israeli arrest, torture

#206

Post by nurspouse »

srackey wrote: post #51
itsoktocry wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

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Why is Israel’s reaction worse? They seem to be reacting to an unprovoked attack by an openly genocidal neighbor with a pretty big-standard conventional war to eliminate the problem regime. I’m not saying that Israel couldn’t be more mindful of optics or civilian casualties, but how is this war not justified?

For context:

As a percentage of the population, Hamas's attack on Oct 7th killed 6 times as many people as Al Qaeda did on September 11. If you are an Israeli, you are 6 times more likely to know someone impacted by those attacks than Americans did in 2001. As a result of the 2001 attack, the US invaded two countries, resulting in million(s)[1] dead on the other side.

Make no mistake: For any country that has the means, losing 900 people in one day will always be seen as an act of war, and they will respond. While the Israeli response is certainly "disproportionate", it is not by any means an outlier when you compare with typical conflicts around the world.

I definitely think Israel's response should be condemned, but I will openly say: Our government(s) in the US routinely do worse. Let there be perspective.

[1] Depends on which study you look at.

Re: 'Like we were lesser humans': Gaza boys, men recall Israeli arrest, torture

#207

Post by random_upvoter »

megaman821 wrote: post #78

Taken in isolation there is nothing wrong with this type of reporting, the IDF should be held to high standards. In the context of the Israeli/Palestine conflict, there is a tendency to hold Israel to a much higher standard and excuse the Palestine side as if they were naive children. I don't see how that could possibly set up any lasting peace. Israel will become more deaf to outsiders, and Palestinians will not be…

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Re: 'Like we were lesser humans': Gaza boys, men recall Israeli arrest, torture

#208

Post by qwerpy »

nicoburns wrote: post #165
iddan wrote: post #136

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Other wars are discussed. There have been threads on Russia vs. Ukraine in recent months. Perhaps Israel look bad in the press because they are acting badly. It seems to me that Israel are unambiguously the stronger power in this conflict: they have are much stronger military, and additionally have the backing of the US and a bunch of other nations that would step in were Israeli territory under threat. And they are…

The way you put it, it sounds like Israel got up in the morning one day and for reasons no one can understand, decided to start inflicting civilian casualties on Palestinians.

Re: 'Like we were lesser humans': Gaza boys, men recall Israeli arrest, torture

#209

Post by Maken »

noworriesnate wrote: post #176
dubcanada wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Israel's response tends to stem from a history of oppression which is where it gets touchy. Jewish have not exactly been treated well for most of the 20th century. Not saying that is a reason to invoke that upon someone else, but it tends to be where most thoughts come from. A sense of if we don't do something we'll lose "our" home.

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If the UN was a properly working organization, it would have intervened long ago to force a ceasefire. But we all know that only applies to very poor countries with no economic or political relevance.

Re: 'Like we were lesser humans': Gaza boys, men recall Israeli arrest, torture

#210

Post by qwertthrowway »

nahumfarchi wrote: post #155
cassepipe wrote: post #56

Those are the most serious allegations: "The men and teenage boys were taken to a warehouse where they sat on a bare floor covered in scattered grains of rice. There they were beaten, interrogated and verbally abused. There was no sleep, and the grains of rice cut their skin as they sat there, undressed." A man claims: "Some people didn’t return from the torture sessions. We would hear their screams and then nothing.…

No, I don't think that is a reasonable take at all. 1. This is warfare, not civil law. Hamas, which is the sovereign in Gaza (there has been no Israeli military presence there for years), commited an act of war in which hundreds were killed, raped, and kidnapped. Israel, as a state, has the moral duty to fight back and make sure this never happens again. Otherwise, it breaks the most basic contract between citizen an…

I think an honest answer would be to end occupation and oppression of the Palestinians by Israel. Any occupying force has an interest to silence and stop indigenous people from claiming their land rights.

For example, Gaza had been described as an open air prison for almost 2 decades because its borders, imports, sea usage, had all been controlled by Israel. This is not what we call “sovereign rule”. The West Bank has been checkered with military checkpoints and illegal settlements, contravening international agreements.

When people are driven to desperation, and their lives are made miserable because the occupying forces want to remove them, they do not have many options.

I think it is quite adequate to compare Gaza to the situation in for example, the Warsaw Ghetto in WW2, when an uprising was quashed by occupying German forces. This Gaza is a heavily urban area with vast majority of civilians, it cannot be compared to two armies fighting on a battlefield.

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