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PCSX2 Disables Wayland Support

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Re: PCSX2 Disables Wayland Support

#201

Post by Ferret7446 »

Arnavion wrote: post #127
mrkstu wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course the order of operations here was to break everything first and then start addressing the issues they feel like addressing when and if they get around to it. Kind of a real FU way of trying to move things forward...

Yes, normally when you make a new thing you start with a small base and then gradually make changes to it, instead of adding the whole kitchen sink from the start and defeating the purpose of making the new thing in the first place.

Well, that's how you go about relearning old lessons. It reminds one of Chesterton's fence, where the ignorant tear down the fence and after much suffering end up building the fence back up.

Re: PCSX2 Disables Wayland Support

#202

Post by Ferret7446 »

k8svet wrote: post #76
Zambyte wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's more interesting how Wayland has worked fine for me on AMD, Intel, and Nvidia for the last 4 years on my personal machines and work machines, and yet here we are still talking about if it works or not.

If you pay enough attention you'll start to notice the same users names across comments and threads. Hallmarked by ignoring any replies, repeating their pet peeve, repeating experiences from years ago as if they were recent re-tries, and ignoring the laundry list of features possible with Wayland that are impossible or declared as never happening with X11. I made the mistake, I clicked the thread, and even replied. M…

Why should someone care about the laundry list of features that Wayland has if they don't need those features, and the feature that they do need doesn't work?

Re: PCSX2 Disables Wayland Support

#203

Post by Ferret7446 »

BearOso wrote: post #154
dinosaurdynasty wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Steam Deck uses Wayland. It uses Xwayland to run X11 applications.

Ironically, the Wayland compositor used by the steam deck, gamescope, doesn't support native Wayland applications. Even weirder, it runs inside an X11 session.

Wait, so why are they even using Wayland?

Re: PCSX2 Disables Wayland Support

#204

Post by hulitu »

caslon wrote: post #132
reisse wrote: post #33

Quoting @stenzek > But Wayland is just broken, and everyone would rather sit around arguing with each other instead of actually addressing the design flaws. > It's not the first time such a proposal has been put forward. Something that developers need for their applications to work properly on WL (particularly multi-window applications), and it gets vetoed. Every other OS manages this fine. But apparently we're in th…

Wayland already works, and is great for a lot of use cases; it's the default on distributions like Fedora, and has been for a while. It has nice things. For 90% of users, it's better than X in most ways that matter. Similar, but much less catastrophic, to how Android isn't great for blind users, or people who want to do low-latency audio production, Wayland is actually great for most users, despite not appealing to e…

> Wayland already works, and is great for a lot of use cases; it's the default on distributions like Fedora, and has been for a while. It has nice things. For 90% of users, it's better than X in most ways that matter.

> I exclusively use X11 because of an extremely niche use case, and I can admit that Wayland is perfectly fine for 99%

I am also married with a nice girl, but the girl next door, looks much better. /s

Re: PCSX2 Disables Wayland Support

#205

Post by Ferret7446 »

charcircuit wrote: post #98
asveikau wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Yes, you can't position windows absolutely, but that's because you're not supposed to do that. I think about 40 years of GUI APIs disagree with this.

40 years ago people did not care about malicous applications, nor did they care about jank, nor did they have the hindsights that we do know. Those API only still exist because of backwards compatibility.

If you're running malicious applications, you're already fucked, and your compositor pretending to protect you is the last thing you need.

Re: PCSX2 Disables Wayland Support

#206

Post by LtWorf »

yencabulator wrote: post #197
LtWorf wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why learn about wayland and figure out how to fix things (and then probably have gnome developers never ever accept your fix) when you can just switch to Xorg in 3 seconds?

Because nobody maintains Xorg anymore. Wayland was started because the Xorg developers thought Xorg had come to the end of the road and was unfixable. You can think of Wayland as X12, except without copyright/trademark concerns.

> Because nobody maintains Xorg anymore

Latest release in June… https://www.x.org/wiki/Releases/

Doesn't seem extremely abandoned.

Re: PCSX2 Disables Wayland Support

#207

Post by BearOso »

Ferret7446 wrote: post #203
BearOso wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ironically, the Wayland compositor used by the steam deck, gamescope, doesn't support native Wayland applications. Even weirder, it runs inside an X11 session.

Wait, so why are they even using Wayland?

The readme pretty much explains it:

https://github.com/ValveSoftware/gamescope

Re: PCSX2 Disables Wayland Support

#208

Post by caslon »

tommiegannert wrote: post #175
caslon wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wayland already works, and is great for a lot of use cases; it's the default on distributions like Fedora, and has been for a while. It has nice things. For 90% of users, it's better than X in most ways that matter. Similar, but much less catastrophic, to how Android isn't great for blind users, or people who want to do low-latency audio production, Wayland is actually great for most users, despite not appealing to e…

> Wayland already works, and is great for a lot of use cases; > I exclusively use X11 because of an extremely niche use case, and I can admit that Wayland is perfectly fine for 99% of things anyone wants to do with a computer. It's not a square wheel at all. This had me thinking about digital NIMBYism. Suggest others do one thing, while you do the opposite, because your reasons make sense . You still haven't addresse…

I use X11 because I wrote a terrible usermode hack a decade ago for a niche (I've used Wayland before; it's great. Most people aren't gamers; everything PCSX2 wants to do is something that 99% of people do not care about; for the majority non-gamer software, allowing a window to manage absolute position is pointless, or even bad. Apps shouldn't be able to force CSD if the user doesn't want it; GNOME is respecting user preference (and that's not a Wayland thing). Even so, it still works with XWayland. For Wayland users, there is no service disruption. Aside from people who dislike XWayland, anyway.

Proprietary NVIDIA drivers being broken is an NVIDIA thing. Swapchains causing segfaults happened any time you used direct rendering from like 470 to 525, even on X11. They don't make great Linux drivers.

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