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Raspberry Pi 5: available now

raspberrypi.com

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Re: Raspberry Pi 5: available now

#201
post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> From RPi5's FAQ: > Raspberry Pi 5 is a higher-performance computer than Raspberry Pi 4, and you may have problems using an under-powered supply. We recommend a high-quality 5V 5A USB-C power supply, such as the new Raspberry Pi 27W USB-C Power Supply. As mentioned in a previous HN discussion, not only was RPi5 designed to require a nonstandard power supply, the official "high-quality" power supply for the RPi4 is a…

Their FAQ is definitely unclear, but, as mentioned in a previous HN discussion, a 5V/3A is going to work fine for most workloads. They limit downstream USB current to 600mA. If you need the full 1.2A limit, you can buy their power supply, another (not common) one, or a powered USB hub. 5V/5A will also give you 5W extra power on the device for their high performance mode. But again, it’s not necessary and most uses of…

> Their FAQ is definitely unclear, but, as mentioned in a previous HN discussion, a 5V/3A is going to work fine for most workloads.

I don't think so. Historically, Raspberry pi board always had non-standard power requirements and always required rpi's official power supply to work reliably. My RPi4 board forced me to buy the official power supply to work without weird problems and I did nothing but vanilla stuff with it.

RPi5 worsens this problem by requiring a power supply that draws 5A.

Re: Raspberry Pi 5: available now

#202
post #39
post #2

But is it still the most attractive SBC at its price point?

Technically yes but in most cases you dont need an sbc. An old Lenovo Thinkcentre or Dell OptiPlex Micro can end up being cheaper by the time you add all the additional expenses onto the pi (storage, power, case, etc). The micropc's are also infinately better performing and are upgradable.

on their website the cheapest lenovo is 500€ and the cheapest dell is 600€ while a kit R5 is 150€, not at all the same price

Re: Raspberry Pi 5: available now

#203
post #8
post #2

But is it still the most attractive SBC at its price point?

If you aren't buying a thousand of them, how much does "price point" really matter to you?

Only very rich people can say the price point doesn't matter for them. For normal people, buying something is always a matter of balancing alternatives, not even talking about poor people for which it is even more dire

Re: Raspberry Pi 5: available now

#204

they still use sd cards? jesus christ.

What would you prefer?

literally anything that does not bring the entire system, which is comprised of hardware that would be otherwise very fast, to a grinding halt, on so many common operations. why not just solder on some damn flash memory and make that the default? why force everyone to buy an SD card for every single device and deal with ungodly slow IO?

Re: Raspberry Pi 5: available now

#205

I'm sorry but it got too expensive and hence lost its main advantage. These days I use second-hand desktop mini-pcs that cost minimally more than the full Rpi set (charger, CD card, case, SBC) but are much more powerful. For anything involving WiFi/IoT, I use ESP32 - far less expensive and very easy to use. And for cases where WiFi is not needed, we have tons of interesting solutions and few reasons to use the Pi.

I've been feeling this way for a while: that Raspberry Pi lost its way, in pursuit of specs over cheap.

I've been very surprised to not see other people discussing it.

Re: Raspberry Pi 5: available now

#206
post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Technically yes but in most cases you dont need an sbc. An old Lenovo Thinkcentre or Dell OptiPlex Micro can end up being cheaper by the time you add all the additional expenses onto the pi (storage, power, case, etc). The micropc's are also infinately better performing and are upgradable.

on their website the cheapest lenovo is 500€ and the cheapest dell is 600€ while a kit R5 is 150€, not at all the same price

Yeah I'm not referring to new ones. Ebay. Dirt cheap and even the ones several generations old are very power efficient and vastly outperform the pi on both performance and cost.

Re: Raspberry Pi 5: available now

#207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

ESP32 honestly feels like its a WiFi/Bluetooth chip that people are hacking into a kinda-sorta usable uC. Probably because... that's what it actually is... If you need WiFi/Bluetooth, it seems like ESP32 is a good fit. If not, its kind of awful with regards to integration. --------- I know that not everyone's doing mixed-signal projects. But ADC, Comparators, OpAmps, Timers are just so damn useful. And STM32, AVR, TI…

Do hobbyists typically need more ADC than what the ESP32 provides? Granted, it's limited to essentially one 12bit split on 8 channels, but with well calibrated dividers, that probably meets many needs. I think the ESPs are really the perfect balance of functionality to (low) cost. That and the excellent beginner-level documentation and community.

It is 12bit but the bottom 0-0.1v and 3.2v-3.3v just read as the min-max.

Honestly for many projects needing analog it might be "good enough", but it leaves a lot to be desired, and like the parent said, the moment you're looking for a a i2c adc you end up looking at another MCU anyway.

That's if you need an analog adc which my projects don't (sensors are all i2c anyway) but definitely takes away from being used as a general purpose chip.

It is a shame espressif didn't put a better adc in there.

Re: Raspberry Pi 5: available now

#208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wait wait wait. 2 LANs on PCIe? One M.2 slot on PCIe? And this works with armbian? That's my new router board, if it works okay! And... if i can buy it anywhere...

Amazon has it, so it seems widely available: https://www.amazon.com/Orange-Pi-Rockchip-Frequency-Developm... I have an ordinary Orange Pi 5 for my HomeAssistant setup and it's quite alright. Having a real NVME SSD in there instead of an SD card gives me peace of mind. I did some tests with zstd and found it about 50% the speed of my Threadripper (restricted to 8 cores for the test). The non-efficiency cores are there…

Well amazon.com doesn't help me much, although they can handle customs to europe for me (it's more trouble dealing with customs than the actual VAT value).

As for Intel machines, most i've found lately seem to be oriented towards home theater, a lot of useless (to me) video outputs and never enough network cards.

Not sure how low power they are either. This is the Intel that seems to have stopped caring about power consumption completely to win the speed race, and people are buying so why would thy care?

Right now I'm still using a dual core Atom Dsomething from I don't remember when, its main quality is it eats 15 W including 2 spinny discs (2.5" 5400 rpm). An Orange Pi with a ssd and the GPU turned off might eat even less.

Re: Raspberry Pi 5: available now

#209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

ESP32 honestly feels like its a WiFi/Bluetooth chip that people are hacking into a kinda-sorta usable uC. Probably because... that's what it actually is... If you need WiFi/Bluetooth, it seems like ESP32 is a good fit. If not, its kind of awful with regards to integration. --------- I know that not everyone's doing mixed-signal projects. But ADC, Comparators, OpAmps, Timers are just so damn useful. And STM32, AVR, TI…

Do hobbyists typically need more ADC than what the ESP32 provides? Granted, it's limited to essentially one 12bit split on 8 channels, but with well calibrated dividers, that probably meets many needs. I think the ESPs are really the perfect balance of functionality to (low) cost. That and the excellent beginner-level documentation and community.

Some ways to use ADCs...

* The recent AVRs are all differential ADCs, which is highly useful as "voltageA - voltageB" is a common measurement in practice. And its quite different than ChannelA (read a fraction-of-a-second earlier) - ChannelB (read right now), for multiple reasons. (Common-mode noise for one, you'll want to sample at the same time to negate common-mode noise)

* Anti-aliasing filters should be applied for best-practice design against your expected sampling rate... but RC 1st order filters have poor performance. The free-opamps you get from STM32G4 / AVR DB / TI's MSPM0L are easily turned into Sallen-key 2nd order filters, or chained together into 4th order filters or beyond. Or in more practical terms, an RC filter achieves -80db (aka: 10-bits of attenuation of aliased signals) after 4 decades. So a 100Khz sampling rate only has an effective bandwidth of 10 Hz.

Meanwhile, a 2nd order filter gets 80db in 2 decades, so you have a bandwidth of 1Khz.

Yes, despite having a 100Khz sample rate (or beyond) in the digital realm, it only has accuracy and efficacy in a much smaller domain. You have to perform basic analog analysis if you care about any bit of accuracy.

* In the case of STM32 or Ti (which have only single-ended OpAmps), you can build a differential OpAmp to perform VoltageA - VoltageB as a preprocessing step before the ADC.

* I'd say the most common use of differential signals is probably current-measurement across a 0.1 Ohm resistor. If 1-amp is flowing the resistor will have 0.1V across it. Furthermore, there's a common-mode voltage of unknown (ex: the resistor might be 2.3V to 2.4V on the two sides one second... but another time it will be 1.5V to 1.6V), so a single-ended measurement is not ideal. So you need to get rid of the common-voltage while simultaneously taking this difference-measurement.

-------------

So basically... OpAmps win so hard its not even a fair fight. Free OpAmps on your microcontrollers (STM32G4, AVR DB, and TI MSPM0L) chips just win in all things analog, even in the most basic case of just sampling into an ADC in practice.

Of course, for precision design, you need to build an analog circuit out of precision parts (ie: a dedicated precision OpAmp rather than the general-purpose ones you find for free on a uC). But many basic designs can be solved with the free opAmps from these uCs, as long as you taper your expectations. (In any case, its far better than what ESP32 will accomplish without opamps of its own)

You really end up with "the sum is greater than each of the parts". ADCs are so much more useful when you have an OpAmp or two at your disposal.

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Note: many uCs have analog comparators which perform "VoltageA > VoltageB" vs "VoltageA So its really the mix: an ADC here, a Voltage Comparator there, a few OpAmps for free, a Zero-crossing detector here... suddenly you can build many designs from these $1 or $2 chips with incredible amounts of accuracy. (Well, incredible for $1 or $2 of course. These parts can't replace more expensive analog chips...)

Re: Raspberry Pi 5: available now

#210
post #24
post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No cpu is ever enough for modern web.

This is true, or was true until Apple released the M1 / M2 chips.

Those chips magically solve the webs problems? Nope. I was given an M1 pro for work. Guess what? The web is still slow.
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