How to see bright, vivid images in your mind’s eye (2016) • Hacker News Board

Re: How to see bright, vivid images in your mind’s eye (2016)

#201

Post by theobromananda » Sun, Oct 01, 2023, 2:48 PM UTC

JshWright wrote: post #180

Fraterkes wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Out of curiosity, how do you keep track of the spaces the characters move in if you can't visualise anything?

I'm not the original commenter here, but I don't understand your question. What does visualizing have to do with knowing where someone is?

The sense of knowing where a character is in a space in fiction is the same sense that is used to visualize anything else. It is the same phenomenon. If you can "know" where a fictional character is in a fictional space, you can also "know" how a fictional apple looks like, or how a fictional coffee smells.

How or where do you hold the knowing of the location of the fictional character? Look at that psychic phenomenon. Aphantasia seems like not knowing what psychic operations one does all the time, while someone who can visualize can consciously use these psychic operations.

Re: How to see bright, vivid images in your mind’s eye (2016)

#202

Post by theobromananda » Sun, Oct 01, 2023, 2:54 PM UTC

buro9 wrote: post #142

Describing the technique in text would've been helpful https://sourcesofinsight.com/image-streaming/

I am stumped: how does visualizing a scene in your minds eye and describing it lead to seeing it on the back of your eyelids as the article linked in the title of this comment section claims? And why call that "image streaming" instead of just "describing a visualized scene". Just advertising, right?

Re: How to see bright, vivid images in your mind’s eye (2016)

#203

Post by qnleigh » Sun, Oct 01, 2023, 2:58 PM UTC

Tangential but hopefully related enough to be of interest; is there similar variability with the "mind's ear?" If you imagine someone saying "hello," does it make sense to then ask things like whether the voice was male or female?Personally, I can 'hear' imagined sounds in quite a lot of detail. I'm not aphantasic, but images are less vivid than audio for me.

Oddly, I realized a few years ago that most of my dreams have no direct audio content. There are no sounds when people talk ; speech is implicit. I asked around and my impression is that this is unusual. However every once in a while I will have a dream with incredibly vivid, apparently novel music, as if every note on every instrument is actually being played in my head. I still remember the main melody from the last song that I dreamt this way.

Re: How to see bright, vivid images in your mind’s eye (2016)

#204

Post by perrygeo » Sun, Oct 01, 2023, 3:19 PM UTC

ncfausti wrote: post #196

This reminds me of a time when I was meditating in my dimly lit office after work some years ago. For context, I had been meditating daily for 20-30 minutes quite consistently at the time. During this session, about 15 minutes in I had the sensation of "seeing with my eyes closed". I could see very clearly my workspace, desk, monitors, keyboard, etc. It was one of the most remarkable experiences of my life. I am wond…

What's the distinction between vivid mental imagery and a closed-eye hallucination? I have aphantasia too (what I used to call "the opposite of a photographic memory") and it always struck me as odd that seeing imagery with closed eyes is considered normal. We put people in mental institutions for hearing voices in their head, but we get a pass if we're hallucinating a visual scene.

My theory is that it's a spectrum from "I only see images when photons hit my eyes" to "I see god right here in front of me." and somewhere on that line is the optimal amount of visual hallucination. It certainly serves some evolutionary advantage.

Re: How to see bright, vivid images in your mind’s eye (2016)

#205

Post by scatters » Sun, Oct 01, 2023, 3:26 PM UTC

4star3star wrote: post #135

deadbeeves wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From talking to people, I would say it exists on a spectrum. I can imagine an apple, the color and texture of its skin, how it feels to touch it, its weightiness, its smell, the sound it'll make when I bite into it, as well as its taste and texture. I can imagine it at different levels of ripeness too, although I don't have the same amount of information for all of them. For me it's so clear that it's almost as good…

I watched a video from a woman talking about her aphantasia. I was struck by the fact that she is an avid reader and enjoys fiction. She said she processes descriptive text as facts. Like, if she read, "Raindrops glistened in the afternoon light as they rolled off the red maple leafs, falling peacefully to the lush green grass, below," she would just have a list of facts in her head and no visualization. It makes me…

We write the same way an LLM does; by putting together words in the order that convention dictates. It's less of a chore if we can make them mean something by metaphor or allusion; in your example, the author clearly intends to signify something by the glistening of the raindrops, the redness of the leaves and the color of the grass, else why mention it?

Re: How to see bright, vivid images in your mind’s eye (2016)

#206

Post by scatters » Sun, Oct 01, 2023, 3:34 PM UTC

theobromananda wrote: post #201

JshWright wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not the original commenter here, but I don't understand your question. What does visualizing have to do with knowing where someone is?

The sense of knowing where a character is in a space in fiction is the same sense that is used to visualize anything else. It is the same phenomenon. If you can "know" where a fictional character is in a fictional space, you can also "know" how a fictional apple looks like, or how a fictional coffee smells. How or where do you hold the knowing of the location of the fictional character? Look at that psychic phenomeno…

Location and vision are separate senses. I'm completely aphantasic, but of course I can orient myself in remembered spaces. Fictional spaces are more difficult, but not impossible if the description is good.

Re: How to see bright, vivid images in your mind’s eye (2016)

#207

Post by colordrops » Sun, Oct 01, 2023, 3:43 PM UTC

JshWright wrote: post #177

colordrops wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a feeling that, unless you are blind due to illness of the brain, that everyone has the capability to visualize internally. This would include your wife when she is reading. I think they difference is that some people have access to this visualization consciously, with their frontal cortex, and for others it's subconscious. If you didn't have this visualization, I believe it would be really hard to commit what…

I am quite certain that I cannot visualize, consciously or subconsciously. I don't see how that would be related to remembering what you read? Reading is just learning a series of facts (potentially fictional "facts", depending on the genre).

How would you know that you can't visualize subconsciously?

Re: How to see bright, vivid images in your mind’s eye (2016)

#208

Post by treme » Sun, Oct 01, 2023, 4:13 PM UTC

ricardobeat wrote: post #160

treme wrote: post #15

https://old.reddit.com/r/CureAphantasia/ Recommended for aphantasics

Sorry about the rant, but this kind of sub rubs me the wrong way. People quickly develop an entire subculture around something, start using their own insider language (autogogia, prophantasia, hyperphantasia) which quickly loops back onto itself in Google since it was unearthed from a random 1973 paper. Then they go on developing methods and theories without any scientific rigour, and sharing experiences with origin-…

The founder of the sub went through their own journey and have been rigorous, transparent about his process and methods.

It rubs me the wrong way you are so quick to judge about someone being unscientific all while showing that you didn't even bother spending 5~10 min on his content.

Re: How to see bright, vivid images in your mind’s eye (2016)

#209

Post by JshWright » Sun, Oct 01, 2023, 4:31 PM UTC

colordrops wrote: post #207

JshWright wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am quite certain that I cannot visualize, consciously or subconsciously. I don't see how that would be related to remembering what you read? Reading is just learning a series of facts (potentially fictional "facts", depending on the genre).

How would you know that you can't visualize subconsciously?

How would you know I could?

Re: How to see bright, vivid images in your mind’s eye (2016)

#210

Post by JshWright » Sun, Oct 01, 2023, 4:35 PM UTC

theobromananda wrote: post #201

JshWright wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not the original commenter here, but I don't understand your question. What does visualizing have to do with knowing where someone is?

The sense of knowing where a character is in a space in fiction is the same sense that is used to visualize anything else. It is the same phenomenon. If you can "know" where a fictional character is in a fictional space, you can also "know" how a fictional apple looks like, or how a fictional coffee smells. How or where do you hold the knowing of the location of the fictional character? Look at that psychic phenomeno…

Proprioception is entirely different from vision. You can know where your hand is with your eyes closed without visualizing anything. My sense of where things are in space feels very similar to proprioception, not vision.