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Google, Meta, Amazon hiring low-paid H1B workers after US layoffs

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Re: Google, Meta, Amazon hiring low-paid H1B workers after US layoffs

#201
post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're not really free to leave if you have to leave the country if you don't have a job lined up immediately.

> if you have to leave the country i mean, this is meant to be a jobs visa. The fact that if you quit said job, you no longer have a reason to be given to stay, seems pretty normal. You are free to leave, it doesn't mean leaving is consequence free.

You're free to try and leave Dubai without a passport, but it's not consequence free.

I love when authortiarians use degrees of coercion to say "well technically YOU ARE free. But not free from consequences".

It's such a disingenuous line of argumentation.

Re: Google, Meta, Amazon hiring low-paid H1B workers after US layoffs

#202

I get it. High income antiwork congregates on blind and low income antiwork congregates on HN. H-1B hiring has dates that matter that you're lined up to do. Go read "Important Dates" here https://www.uscis.gov/working-in-the-united-states/temporary... Ultimately, the Silicon Valley job market is bimodal. If you don't make $500k+ here, it's not because a H-1B worker is taking your job. It's because you're not good eno…

You clearly don’t get it, you just made an unrelated argument. And ya, obviously if you don’t make a half million dollars you don’t have a good enough resume and don’t interview well enough to make that much. That’s tiny portion of jobs and not what anyone here is talking about. Truly a pointless, navel-gazing comment.

Re: Google, Meta, Amazon hiring low-paid H1B workers after US layoffs

#203
post #192
post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because this is in America.

I know you're joking but some people actually think that way and it's so disgusting. No borders no nations no walls

I am not joking. Countries are made to protect their citizens first.

Re: Google, Meta, Amazon hiring low-paid H1B workers after US layoffs

#204
post #178
post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

H1Bs aren’t second hand citizens, and canceling the H1B program would trigger an immediate humanitarian crisis, not to mention completely shut off America’s main advantage in innovation; the idea that we don’t care where you’re from if you’re great at what you do.

> we don’t care where you’re from if you’re great at what you do. Yes, that’s true but isn’t what is happening here. They’re not bringing in H1Bs for their talent, they’re firing US workers so they bring in H1Bs to do the same job, but cheaper. Break up ALL big tech.

If they’re not better, the company will get worse, and be overtaken eventually.

In my experience, they’re plenty good enough, often overqualified.

Re: Google, Meta, Amazon hiring low-paid H1B workers after US layoffs

#205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

You don't understand what slavery is. Slaves don't get paid and it isn't voluntary. H1B are paid and is entirely voluntary. The reason foreigners accept and compete for the positions is because the pay is better than the positions they can get locally. Calling that slavery is ignorant and an insult to anyone alive or historically who has suffered actual slave labor.

People who go to Dubai and end up in what people call slavery also "sign contracts" and go there "voluntarily".

They're exploited nonetheless.

Your entire comment defending exploitation is and insult to anyone alive.

Disgusting semantics game to defend what the US and other countries do with migrants. You're trying to shame people when you're the one who should feel ashamed.

Re: Google, Meta, Amazon hiring low-paid H1B workers after US layoffs

#206

Generally not supposed to say this out loud, but being the only American on an all H1B team at these companies can be absolutely brutal. Very alienating, always missing out on back channel communications, no sympathy for missteps

I'm a manager of a team that's mostly H1Bs at Google. It's mostly fine but a few of them just refuse improve their English, and it's frustrating spending hours every day just being an English teacher to an engineer who writes at a 5th grade level. The problem with hiring too many H1Bs is they speak to each other in Chinese and thus take forever to become proficient at communicating with the rest of the company. Also,…

Here's something I don't understand. If google pays the same regardless, why bother to hire H1B at all?

Re: Google, Meta, Amazon hiring low-paid H1B workers after US layoffs

#207
post #203
post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know you're joking but some people actually think that way and it's so disgusting. No borders no nations no walls

I am not joking. Countries are made to protect their citizens first.

[flagged]

Re: Google, Meta, Amazon hiring low-paid H1B workers after US layoffs

#208

This article is a nothingburger. These companies laid off a bunch of people. Some of whom were H1Bs. And they’re hiring a bunch of people. Some of whom are H1Bs. That’s simply a commentary on large companies hiring even after doing layoffs which is pretty standard.

H1B is meant to help companies when they can’t find Americans to hire. They just fired a bunch of Americans, and now they can’t find them?

Re: Google, Meta, Amazon hiring low-paid H1B workers after US layoffs

#209
This topic is a lightning rod and it seems we're conflating a bunch of things. All these things can be separately true.

1) H1B's are abused 2) Immigrants, like any other people, can form cliques at work 3) Companies do layoffs while simultaneously hiring 4) H1B semi-indenture the hired immigrant

First off the bat, this is a clickbaity article. The literal implication is FANG laid off and FANG also hired H1Bs therefore FANG laid off Americans to employ lowly-skilled H1Bs. This is pure sleight of hand. Facebook's had ~20k layoffs and ~3k H1B hires. It'd be easy to claim a wholesale clean out/swap out if Facebook successfully hired ~10000 to 20k H1Bs. Secondly, H1B hires usually include a mix of net new hires (say a college grad joining facebook) and existing employee (I work at facebook and want to switch to an H1B visa). Thirdly, H1Bs are usually lodged independently of layoffs or better put, H1Bs are lodged several months in advance. A decent chunk of those H1B hires started their application process 16-18 months ago. You cannot just fire someone and immediately pick an H1B. The H1B process is independent and nondeterministic (or random because it takes several months to process an application & it all depends on the lottery). It's pretty blatant the article doesn't even mention the number of visas awarded. It also doesn't even bother backing up the 'low-salaried' claim (fun fact, all H1B salary info is public so you can actually do the math yourself and see if say Amazon's H1B salaries are 'low'/'deflated'. Spoiler, no such thing)

(I'll also add, the energy required to perform a conspiracy of multiple managers coordinating to mass replace american workers at FANG could boil the sun. I think labor collusion happens i.e. a do-not-poach from X company, but H1B would be practically infeasible at distributed semiautonomous Google/Facebook hiring teams. But hey, I guess it's doable but not worth the RoI)

Secondly, H1B abuse definitely happens and we literally know who the obvious culprits are. These are the standard offshoring culprits. I'm not going to mention them by name here but they are responsible for most of the horror stories you hear i.e. having an american train their literal replacement

Thirdly, I totally get it. Tech is a tough-to-hire industry and hiring is a zero sum game (if i were an economist, i'd argue the productivity gains from a diverse skilled workforce actually makes the pie bigger but that's for another day). If I were American I would be pissed off at the idea of a bunch of foreigners coming in and taking my jobs. But that's not what's happening in this article.

The last thing is the almost xenophobia which I don't think should be relevant to H1B hiring, but idk folks. If a PhD team is full of a bunch of folks from Bleurgh, of course the Bleurghians will clique up. It's naturally human tendency especially if you're a foreigner. I literally see Americans do this wherever they go :). But sometimes some people do experience stone-wall cliques where the Bleurghians refuse to even attempt to assimilate. That's a complicated issue, but I can see why it'd be frustrating. I once took a graduate CS class that was mostly full of Bloopians and I found it amusing when the instructor would sometimes conduct office hours in Bloopian

Honestly the best way to fix immigration is to be mad at your government and compel them to make common sense regulations. We literally know who perpetuates H1B abuse but the USCIS doesn't have the means to fully stamp it out. USCIS is woefully understaffed and inundated and like any government bureau, pretty slow. The government, because of partisanship, has been pretty much roadblocked on common-sense immigration for decades.

Re: Google, Meta, Amazon hiring low-paid H1B workers after US layoffs

#210
post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

> H1B at big tech is modern slavery that's putting it too far - they are free to leave or quit as they wish. Unlike the true modern slavery of which is migrant workers (like described here https://www.antislavery.org/world-cup-2022-the-reality-for-m... ), where their passports are confiscated, etc. H1B is exploiting the rules for cheap labour. It does benefit the H1B holder - since they would otherwise not have signe…

> H1B is exploiting the rules for cheap labour. It does benefit the H1B holder - since they would otherwise not have signed up.

H1B, L1 etc visa schemes make you indentured to the system. The longer you stay and invest in your home and social life (which as a human you have to, otherwise you become a mindless drone), the more you are indentured to the system. Indenture is built into the visa contract – you cannot quit your current employer and stay unemployed even for a short period of time – even though you did contribute social security every single month, even though you paid all taxes every single month – you get no benefits.

So, you are in constant fear of losing your job and having to throw away your entire investment here. This means you will be pliable in many ways you would otherwise not be. You can be denied promotions, you can be given shitty/grunt work, you can be given borderline unethical work, you can be asked to fire other people in unsympathetic ways, you can be asked to work weekends and nights without any overtime pay, you can be asked to travel very long distances for work in economy class and so on and you shall not complain.

You can only suffer silently until you get another job. Btw, you cannot get any random job you like. You have to get a job where the employer is willing to go through the rigmarole of visa process - which narrows the field significantly.

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