Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Common mistakes in salary negotiation

interviewing.io

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

201–210 of 467 posts

Re: Common mistakes in salary negotiation

#201

Post by Manuel_D »

jrockway wrote: post #135
pc86 wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whether I am thrilled to take a $60k TC job or my absolute minimum is $400k that doesn't change the market in that 60k is insultingly low and 400k is well above the median (cue all the folks who think FAANG is the market chiming in about $450k TC juniors).

Wait, which FAANG hires junior engineers for $450k?

Perhaps people who joined shortly before a stock rally. I was pulling ~$270k TC at 2 YoE, but it was really ~$175k TC at the time I actually joined the company. Equity is so variable, that's why it's better to compare TC at time of offer. Of course, when I negotiate I always cite the highest stock value in the last several months.

Re: Common mistakes in salary negotiation

#202

Post by gardenhedge »

This is all sickening really and all pointless really.

If the company end up overpaying Person A (which they'll learn by hiring Person B,C,D and seeing their performance), they will let Person A go.

If the company end up underpaying Person A, which will be obvious from levels.fyi, glassdoor and colleagues, Person A will just not do a good job and leave.

Re: Common mistakes in salary negotiation

#203

Post by Manuel_D »

treprinum wrote: post #21

Salary negotiation is all about information asymmetry; typically the company holds all the cards and the candidate none. Not sure any article could help with that in any way.

Not exactly. Some candidates outright lie about competing offers or existing compensation. Less unscrupulous tactics are to give TC figures based on the peak of the stock price performance, which isn't technically a lie - you just forgot to cite the most up-to-date price.

Re: Common mistakes in salary negotiation

#204

Post by dekhn »

I dunno, I've never really aggressively negotiated at hire time, but certainly at my industry jobs, just getting the door was the important thing, because my comp grows exponentially once I'm on the inside (all Googlers got a 10% raise one year. Just because.)

What does happen is during the first recruiter chat (before talking ot the HM), I make sure they are OK with my number (base + bonus + stock) in theory. Some jobs I've wanted have ended at that point- I asked for $270K base and they won't go above $230K, for example. it's a shame but I guess over my career I've done well enough, even with many rejections, mostly by just paying attention and moving to tyhe right place at the right time.

In my most recent role, the hiring manager had to put me in the highest eng level ("distinguished") to meet my salary expectation, and it was still a pay cut compared to my previous job in FAANG. However, my life quality more than makes up the difference. Don't always chase the biggest number.

Re: Common mistakes in salary negotiation

#205

Post by ryandrake »

legohead wrote: post #200

I am expecting raises to come soon and I am trying to think through how to ask for a higher raise. Any input would be appreciated. My company does this thing where they buy some kind of market research salary analysis and use it to gauge what they should be paying us. They tell us as much, and it feels like a trap: "We can't give you more because it's not industry standard" etc. Since I'm at the top of the ceiling ac…

> My company does this thing where they buy some kind of market research salary analysis and use it to gauge what they should be paying us. They tell us as much, and it feels like a trap: "We can't give you more because it's not industry standard" etc. Since I'm at the top of the ceiling according to this list, my raises have been pretty much crap the last couple of years.

I worked for a company that did that too. "Our hands are tied, the book says you can make within this salary range, and [surprise, surprise] you're already making the top of that range!" Book or no book, this is a tactic I've seen from all 4 out of the last 4 companies I've worked. Every manager will say this. Oh, yea I swear, I'd love to give you a 5% raise, but you're at the top of your range already!

Re: Common mistakes in salary negotiation

#206

Post by OkayPhysicist »

Aurornis wrote: post #175
nunez wrote: post #147

> My general policy with third-party recruiters is to not tell them ANYTHING and to always deal directly with the companies they introduce you, once you establish a point of contact there. You should assume that anything you tell your recruiter is going to get back to every company you’re working with. Why? Because their primary objective is to place your butt in the seat of one of the companies they’re working with,…

Forcing the company to name a number first works well when the person has absolutely no idea what market rate is. However, the idea that it’s the optimal strategy in every situation has been blown out of proportion online. When you force a company to name their price first, they will start with usually a number lower than their target compensation because most candidates will then want to negotiate up. Of all the sal…

Don't forget that you have multiple axes to negotiate on: I would happily take a 25% pay cut if it came with a couple months worth of PTO. Then, when they're unwilling to budge on the PTO, you can leverage that back into getting the salary number moving again.

I find that kind of haggling to work best as a synchronous, ideally face-to-face, communication. In that setting, it's very unlikely that you can't manage to smooth over any too ambitious of an ask and arrive at some sort of agreeable number.

Re: Common mistakes in salary negotiation

#207

Post by dudul »

legohead wrote: post #200

I am expecting raises to come soon and I am trying to think through how to ask for a higher raise. Any input would be appreciated. My company does this thing where they buy some kind of market research salary analysis and use it to gauge what they should be paying us. They tell us as much, and it feels like a trap: "We can't give you more because it's not industry standard" etc. Since I'm at the top of the ceiling ac…

The usual recommendation is to go get another offer at the salary you want and use that to make your case.

Now, I use to think that the "spiteful boss" was a myth, ie the boss that is going to be all pissy because they feel blackmailed and give you a hard time. I actually did encounter it for the first time in 2 decades a few years ago. I was VP of eng at the time and one of my reports used this technique to show that we were clearly lowballing him (which I knew, but budget was controlled by the CFO). The CTO got mad with a big M, saying that he didn't want to be blackmailed or held hostage of whatever. Threw a big tantrum and we basically lost an engineer.

As I said, it was the one occurrence in my 20 years in the industry so it's not very common. Most managers understand that it's business, you're showing them the data and they don't want to lose someone who's doing a good job.

Re: Common mistakes in salary negotiation

#208

Post by dudul »

analog31 wrote: post #139
Nemi wrote: post #73

So this is the exact same problem with Realtors. They will say that they have a fiducial responsibility to represent you and that they will try to get you the best price (either the most or least, depending on whether they are on the selling or buying side, respectfully). And they will do that, to some limited extent. But really their incentive is to close the deal . And that means telling you that this is the best p…

My rule is that nobody is working for the buyer or seller. Everybody is working for the sale.

Very much this. It is actually a real scandal that realtors make a share of the sale as opposed to a flat fee. The paperwork and all is the same regardless of if it's a condo or a mansion.

Re: Common mistakes in salary negotiation

#209

Post by throwmeout123 »

deckard1 wrote: post #136
ghaff wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Portfolios" in some form are often necessary. (In my space, writing samples.) If you have those ready to go, easier for everyone! But if you don't have a relevant portfolio, you'll need to either put something together or I'll pass. (I'm not really looking for a specific assignment but just something that's representative of the type of work.)

why would a software dev have a portfolio? The comparison to design or writing doesn't make sense. A graphic designer can point to logos or marketing material that is publicly available. I'm not going to put proprietary code on a portfolio nor am I going to spend multiple years building some open source project when I already have a full time job. Software engineering must be the only profession where employment hist…

Software IS writing. Software IS literature. You might disagree right now but that’s what it is.

Re: Common mistakes in salary negotiation

#210

Post by ryandrake »

nunez wrote: post #147

> My general policy with third-party recruiters is to not tell them ANYTHING and to always deal directly with the companies they introduce you, once you establish a point of contact there. You should assume that anything you tell your recruiter is going to get back to every company you’re working with. Why? Because their primary objective is to place your butt in the seat of one of the companies they’re working with,…

> I DO agree with OP that you _shouldn't_ state what your current salary/comp is (unless you don't care about negotiating on comp but want to ensure you maintain what you're making).

I wonder how much of this information the companies already have access to. Like, they probably use ADP or Paychex as their payroll service, and I wouldn't be surprised if they can ask the payroll company or just look up what you currently make.

The last time I interviewed (at a FAANG), they didn't do any kind of negotiation dance about pay. They didn't ask me what I make or what I wanted. After the interviewing, they said "Here's your offer, it is non-negotiable." and lo and behold it was about 0.2% or so above what I was currently making. Like a difference of under $500 for the yearly figure. Uncanny how they came so close! I tried negotiating but they were indeed unwilling to negotiate on anything.

Post reply on HN