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LK-99 isn’t a superconductor

nature.com

201–210 of 754 posts

Re: LK-99 isn’t a superconductor

#201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Jeez— it's almost like few people around here are physicists, consider physicists credible on their specialty, saw physicists excited by the potential, and get excited by exciting things. What a shamefully foolish intellectual failure!

As noted by the sibling comment, the physicists (especially those who specialized in superconductor research!) were the ones who were the most skeptical of the announcement, partially because claims of room-temperature superconductors are actually relatively common, and partially because the evidence in the paper was just atrociously bad [1]. One of the things I look forward to in an HN discussion is the comments of…

> One of the things I look forward to in an HN discussion is the comments of people who can collate expert opinions on the subject and surface these kinds of points in a more ELI15 kind of way.

HN is full of subject matter experts on computing-- that is, software, and to a lesser extent, hardware-- beyond that it's a mixed bag at best. Even as an interface designer, I see so much confidently presented and totally bogus pseudo-expertise on art and design here that it's actually kind of funny, and that's much more closely related to software development than physics is. That BS sounds credible to other developers because it's in a developer's voice and trips on misconceptions common among developers. I suspect that's true with the other non-computing topics discussed here that I don't know enough about to give an expert opinion on.

As a long-time developer myself, I've been on both sides of assuming our astonishing intelligence and analytical capability can make up for lacking the requisite expertise. The mistake is expecting the HN crowd's musings about things outside of it's expertise to be more trustworthy than any other internet forum. If this were some physics subreddit or something like that, the criticism would make more sense. This is just people being excited by something a lot of other people were excited by.

Re: LK-99 isn’t a superconductor

#202
I'm curious (but not really qualified to understand) if the theoretical calculations on viable superconducting structures was a new insight on its own.

If there is a theoretical model for ambient temperature superconductivity, then that should help us zoom in on potential materials that could be an actual superconductor someday?

Re: LK-99 isn’t a superconductor

#203

It’s disappointing news but the excitement and amount of replication on this paper was pretty fun to witness and experience. To me the most interesting part was everyone talking about potential consequences, uses, the order of magnitude improvements we’d see in certain costs or areas. Pumps, MRIs, power grids, chips, etc. Great reminder what materials science can do to some underlying economics.

> [...] There was nothing missing from so many beautiful works, except that it was true that the tooth was made of gold. When a goldsmith had examined it, it was found to be gold leaf applied to the tooth with great skill; but books were written before the goldsmith was consulted.

> I am not so convinced of our ignorance by the things that are, and whose reason is unknown to us, than by those that are not, and whose reason we find. This means that not only do we not have the principles that lead to the truth, but that we also have others that accommodate the false very well.

Bernard Le Bouyer de Fontenelle, Histoire des Oracles 1687. Translated with Deepl.

Re: LK-99 isn’t a superconductor

#204

I found Thunderf00t's video on LK-99 to be funny because he pointed out something no one else did: In almost all applications of superconductors, they don't use high-temperature ones for one simple reason: Material properties. Most high-temp superconductors (including LK-99, he was assuming it was one, since he's not qualified to say one way or the other) are a ceramic. The ones that see use in the LHC, for instance,…

yeah thunderfoots video really dismissed a lot of the hopes i had, and im glad for it.

Re: LK-99 isn’t a superconductor

#205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Room temperature superconductivity, like quantum computing, fusion power, and em drives, and other similar "magic" technologies, have one thing in common, which is that the potential consequences of their existence are positive, substantial, and relatively easy to explain and to comprehend, while the difficulties preventing those technologies from seeing the light of day are complex, difficult, and a "bummer" to hear…

I'm struggling with the claimed consequences. The electricity grid has losses of about 30 percent, so a fully superconducting grid could increase delivered power by about 43 percent, not an order of magnitude more. More compact MRI machines would be nice to have, certainly, but wouldn't materially change mortality. What else is there?

Our electrical grid has losses of 30 percent, even after being designed to minimize those losses. Superconductivity wouldn't simply remove those losses; it would remove that design constraint, enabling (for example) solar panels in the Sahara to power households in Siberia. It would mostly fix the power storage problem for renewables.

The point is that at a certain level, a quantifiable increase in efficiency causes a qualitative change in capabilities.

Re: LK-99 isn’t a superconductor

#206
post #86
post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We had similar nonsense with r the EM Drive and cold fusion so this isn’t that new. Either way the best video I’ve seen on this whole thing, Abe why it’s endlessly frustrating, is this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zl-AgmoZ5mo

It's easy call those claims nonsense in retrospect. However, many important discoveries were made from equally fantastic observations. We would have missed a lot if we brushed them aside cynically. The only way to know for sure is to test the claim scientifically. As the LK99 saga has shown, even incredible claims must be discussed and tested in public. This is one episode where the media hype did work - though the r…

> It's easy call those claims nonsense in retrospect.

People were calling out the over hyping, the bad science, and the bad graph from day 1. The original scientists DIDN'T want to publish.

Almost all important discoveries have been made from PROPER science. If you have surprising results, you verify them. You verify your test results. You verify your methodology. You repeat the experiment.

How many important discoveries aren't found because they can't get funding/attention because "doing it right" is somehow seen as wrong now.

Re: LK-99 isn’t a superconductor

#207
post #41

Honestly, I feel bad for the original authors, who were correctly holding out for stronger evidence but were forced into publishing early by the actions of a third party going behind their backs. I hope they don't experience undue blowback because of this.

The question is whether or not the original authors were pawns or part of the scam.

Re: LK-99 isn’t a superconductor

#208
post #14

In their preprint, the Korean authors note one particular temperature at which LK-99’s showed a tenfold drop in resistivity, from about 0.02 ohms per centimetre to 0.002 ohms per cm. “They were very precise about it. 104.8ºC,” says Prashant Jain, a chemist at the University of Illinois Urbana–Champaign. “I was like, wait a minute, I know this temperature.” The reaction that synthesizes LK-99 uses an unbalanced recipe…

Iris, the fabled ethnicly Russian LK99 Homebrewer with the Catgirl Girlfriend, is not convinced :

- "70% CuS impurity" are you sure you didn't grab the Chalcocite by accident?

- There's no significant CuS in samples prepared at 925°C. There cannot be.

- I tried forcefully introducing sulfide into pbo, it just. Doesn't work. Even at 600°C. PbS reduces lead in 2 PbO to 3Pb, leaving as SO2.

https://twitter.com/iris_IGB/status/1691840478189384097?t=cB...

Re: LK-99 isn’t a superconductor

#209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did you skip over "In almost all applications of superconductors, they don't use high-temperature ones for one simple reason: Material properties." They're saying that LHC does not use a ceramic, and therefore high-temperature, superconductor; instead they use metallic (cooled) superconductors because they can be molded.

The sentence still does not make sense because the superconductors in the LHC (though, rereading it a couple of times it is somewhat ambiguous) are not high temperature by any definition. Also, again, ceramic high-temperature superconductors are metallic, or they would not be conductors. “Ceramic” and “metallic” are not mutually exclusive in material sciences. There are lots of reasons to use more classical supercond…

can you make wires from cermets? Thats the point. we need a substance that is malleable(?) enough like copper wire that electrons can pass through. Pottery ceramic wont work like that.

Re: LK-99 isn’t a superconductor

#210

I found Thunderf00t's video on LK-99 to be funny because he pointed out something no one else did: In almost all applications of superconductors, they don't use high-temperature ones for one simple reason: Material properties. Most high-temp superconductors (including LK-99, he was assuming it was one, since he's not qualified to say one way or the other) are a ceramic. The ones that see use in the LHC, for instance,…

>In almost all applications of superconductors, they don't use high-temperature ones for one simple reason: Material properties.

The problem is that this is not true anymore. It was true when I was in high school. Modern methods of manufacturing cuprate superconductors have been applied to the largest-scale projects:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holbrook_Superconductor_Projec...

https://publikationen.bibliothek.kit.edu/1000075557/4402937

https://indico.cern.ch/event/775529/contributions/3309887/at...

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