Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

GNU Boot sent a cease and desist to Libreboot

libreboot.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

201–210 of 228 posts

Re: GNU Boot sent a cease and desist to Libreboot

#201

Post by drewcoo »

wolverine876 wrote: post #78
neilv wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have to remind myself not to read too much into such things, for three reasons that we all know, but which may bear repeating to ourselves: 1. Open source is global, and not everyone is a native speaker of English. 2. Among English speakers, not everyone has the same cultural conventions and nuances. Even within US cities, you can drive 15 minutes, and find very different conventions. And culture in Boston isn't th…

That's an essential point. At the same time the interpretation isn't completely random or unpredictable; we're all humans, with the same emotions, the same physiological expressions of them, and the same internal responses to others' emotions. If you yell at someone anywhere, you can expect a certain range of emotional responses.

That expectation of sameness is exactly the problem.

We don't all express ourselves or react in the same ways, despite whatever our HR training videos claim.

When someone "yells at me," I tend to think they're excited and it piques my interest in what they're saying. At the same time, they're excited so I expect them to omit some details and not give me a complete picture - I'm less discerning about the details. Was that one of the responses I'm supposed to feel?

Re: GNU Boot sent a cease and desist to Libreboot

#202

Post by OO000oo »

mcpackieh wrote: post #80
OO000oo wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you suggesting the corporate interests want that? I think in fact the corporate interests already get 99% of everything they want and they simply don't care for a cohesive desktop OS.

It's wanted by people who want linux to become mainstream and think forcing everybody to use their personal DE of choice would be a step towards that goal. It's fine though, it's never going to happen because the whole point is that users are free to use what they want how they want. And if somehow that freedom was taken away, mainstream adoption of linux would be a pyrrhic victory anyway.

Incredibly ignorant comment. It won't happen because corporations won't let it. Adobe alone could make Linux Desktop happen tomorrow, but there's nothing in it for them. That's all there is to it.

Re: GNU Boot sent a cease and desist to Libreboot

#203

Post by mcpackieh »

OO000oo wrote: post #202
mcpackieh wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's wanted by people who want linux to become mainstream and think forcing everybody to use their personal DE of choice would be a step towards that goal. It's fine though, it's never going to happen because the whole point is that users are free to use what they want how they want. And if somehow that freedom was taken away, mainstream adoption of linux would be a pyrrhic victory anyway.

Incredibly ignorant comment. It won't happen because corporations won't let it. Adobe alone could make Linux Desktop happen tomorrow, but there's nothing in it for them. That's all there is to it.

Bizarre remark. Adobe has no power to unify the Linux desktop. They cannot force me to stop using the DE/WM of my choice. Desktop fragmentation is a natural and desirable consequence of user choice. You seem to be confused as to what this conversation is even about.

Re: GNU Boot sent a cease and desist to Libreboot

#204

Post by wlerin »

b112 wrote: post #182
mcv wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hadn't heard about this drama before, but as I can piece things together, Leah has been maintaining Libreboot and another boot system for years. Denis and Adrien disagreed with Leah's decision to include binaries, created their own version of Libreboot without those binaries and published it under the same name on a very similar domain trying to claim the existing Libreboot name for their version. Then I suspect Le…

I often wonder if someone is whispering in people's ears, to destroy such projects. For example, a long email history on any of these people(and even if you don't use, people you email do use gmail), from a central store such as gmail, would provide immense insight into personality traits, etc. Which means external motivaters could be used as handy leavers to drive dissent. Little spats like this, erode project trust…

Seems like a faster route to destruction would be letting Elon buy it.

But yeah, this does seem to happen painfully often. The particulars of this specific incident remind me a lot of the FFmpeg vs LibAV split (or the LibAV+Debian vs. FFmpeg+Everyone Else split).

Re: GNU Boot sent a cease and desist to Libreboot

#205

Post by Gracana »

mPReDiToR wrote: post #157
ddalex wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand the frackas about a library that reboots your computer being free or not....

I read it that way too. Lib reboot. Always have, but it took LibreOffice becoming mainstream to make the correction mostly unnoticeable.

My favorite is the GNU libiberty library, which is picked up when you pass the -liberty option to gcc. :D

Re: GNU Boot sent a cease and desist to Libreboot

#206

Post by DangitBobby »

tpush wrote: post #151
lelanthran wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> and yet people love apple That doesn't minimise the impact of open-source software. I've yet to see an Apple user who doesn't install brew as a first step before doing anything with their computer. From what I see, people may love Apple's OS, but they can't use it with without open-source tools.

> I've yet to see an Apple user who doesn't install brew as a first step before doing anything with their computer. Most Apple users don't even know what brew is, and I'd be willing to bet that most devs using Macs don't install it either. Anyway, the larger point that gnome can't succeed because it doesn't offer "choice" is nonsense.

I know exactly zero developers that use a Mac without homebrew installed.

Re: GNU Boot sent a cease and desist to Libreboot

#207

Post by marsey1488 »

1000bestlives wrote: post #198
Dah00n wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's absolutely nothing laudable in that at all and it screams of drama queen. "Lesser coders" - well that's is one person I'd avoid at all cost. Also, empty barrels make the most noise!

Dramaphobic, and probably transphobic to boot. You need to be better than you are right now.

He needs a good dose of bussy to straighten him out.

Re: GNU Boot sent a cease and desist to Libreboot

#208

Post by slabity »

0dayz wrote: post #190
slabity wrote: post #24

> I did this release for them Did I miss something? Over the past 7 years the Libreboot project has been extremely aggressive towards the FSF. Going so far as to say the GNU project shouldn't exist and throwing insults at individuals in the organization. The emphasis on the whole, "I did this release for them" honestly doesn't pass the sniff test and kind of feels like they're intentionally trying to create drama. Th…

I was completely unaware of this, and yet they collaborate with each other? Do you have potential sources for this?

> and yet they collaborate with each other?

Libreboot use to be part of the GNU project, but I'm not aware of any collaboration after the fact. I just know the primary author/maintainer of Libreboot had a falling out with the FSF and GNU project. I don't think they ever reconciled (and I'm not sure they will at this point).

As for the cause of their falling out, this happened around 2016 when the FSF let go of a transgender employee. It appears the original statements by the Libreboot maintainer was deleted off of their site, but they are archived[0][1] and the original email sent out declaring themselves no longer part of the GNU project[2]

Just to be clear, I am not sure if an actual reason was given out for why they were fired. The FSF had declined giving an actual reason, and Richard Stallman himself stated "The dismissal of the staff person was not because of her gender. Her gender now is the same as it was when we hired her. It was not an issue then, and it is not an issue now."[3]

Those articles and emails are the only primary sources that I'm aware of. There might be more information somewhere else, but unfortunately I don't really know of anything further.

There was more drama later on. Something about the author leaving the project and then forcibly taking it back a few years later down the line against other contributor's wishes. But I think the reason for that was a bit more nuanced and I didn't keep up with that. I'm not even sure it had anything to do with the FSF or GNU project anyways.

[0] https://archive.is/T8BBA

[1] https://archive.is/q5uod

[2] https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/libreboot/2016-09/msg0003...

[3] https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/libreboot/2016-09/msg0005...

Re: GNU Boot sent a cease and desist to Libreboot

#209

Post by wolverine876 »

drewcoo wrote: post #201
wolverine876 wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's an essential point. At the same time the interpretation isn't completely random or unpredictable; we're all humans, with the same emotions, the same physiological expressions of them, and the same internal responses to others' emotions. If you yell at someone anywhere, you can expect a certain range of emotional responses.

That expectation of sameness is exactly the problem. We don't all express ourselves or react in the same ways, despite whatever our HR training videos claim. When someone "yells at me," I tend to think they're excited and it piques my interest in what they're saying. At the same time, they're excited so I expect them to omit some details and not give me a complete picture - I'm less discerning about the details. Was…

> We don't all express ourselves or react in the same ways

I didn't say we did. I said there is a range of responses we can reasonably expect.

Re: GNU Boot sent a cease and desist to Libreboot

#210

Post by wolverine876 »

Incipient wrote: post #110
wolverine876 wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's an essential point. At the same time the interpretation isn't completely random or unpredictable; we're all humans, with the same emotions, the same physiological expressions of them, and the same internal responses to others' emotions. If you yell at someone anywhere, you can expect a certain range of emotional responses.

Anecdotal counterpoint about "yelling". I was having a conversation with my mother at a Cafe. After 15mins the lady next to us, very genuinely and nicely, asked if we were ok because we were yelling at each other. We're Italian. That was our normal conversation! Someone's definition of aggressive discourse is definitely not everyone's.

Yes, a good example. That's what I meant by a "range of emotional responses" (emphasis added).

Also, our interpretation depends on context, such as in your example, and many other things. It's a bit argumentative to treat a short HN comment as a roadmap of every human interaction and find flaws.

Post reply on HN