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Attention Is Off By One

evanmiller.org

201–210 of 347 posts

Re: Attention Is Off By One

#201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe Feynman understood that he was oversimplifying, and I believe he was able to do because his reason for reading the paper was not the same as the reason another sociologist might have. Thus a sentence like, "The individual member of the social community often receives his information via visual, symbolic channels", does, to a non-expert, mean "people read", but to another sociologist of a researcher in relat…

Well, maybe, but you can rationalize arbitrary amounts of pointless jargon that way. Besides, in the example Faynman gives the simple sentence is actually shorter . Maybe that shorter sentence loses some information that the jargon carried, but Occam's razor suggests the writer was just trying to sound smarter.

Some bad writing certainly comes from trying to sound “academic” or “scholarly” but there’s more to it than that.

A lot of research involves lumping and splitting: what underlying properties do these seemingly-different share (or vice versa). For example, reading text is just one possible instantiation of a “visual symbolic channel.” Traffic lights, road signs, gauges and dials, logos, and clocks also carry information the same way. If you want to discuss “reading and reading-like activities”, you may want some kind of umbrella term.

Plus, you may want to contrast them with other ways of sharing information: non-symbolic systems that literally depict the item in question (photos on a picture menu, for example) or using a different sense altogether, like church bells for telling time.

Re: Attention Is Off By One

#203

While not about AI or the algorithm mentioned, on the subject of little errors that you can't convince anyone are errors.... In 2011, I wanted to copy the reddit ranking algorithm in a project of my own, so I went to source code to look at it... the algorithm in the source code I found wasn't doing anything at all sensible with negative-sum voted posts. I thought I discovered the error, some terms swapped in the simp…

In light of the past couple of months, I guess I should not surprised that the interaction with reddit staff went that way.

Re: Attention Is Off By One

#204
post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Testing steps (based on thinking about this for 30 seconds - so probably can be improved): Train a Transformer based model with and without the modified Softmax (Suggestions: GPT-2 or nanoGPT) Measure performance - I'd probably start with Perplexity and see if there is any difference (we'd expect little difference). Quantize both models with different quantization strategies. Measure the perplexity of the quantized m…

I was thinking about a different problem as I was typing that and got some mental memory alias bug. I wanted to know a set of steps to take to train a model. My apologies. In any case, that was an lmgtfy-level question. Here's what I found: https://til.simonwillison.net/llms/training-nanogpt-on-my-bl... I shall try that soon.

Shaaaaameless plug:

I did a writeup like this. (Not as nicely as Simon though) where I modal.com (cloud GPU, containers, quick starts, free $30/m spend) to use their GPUs (e.g. T4, A100).

https://martincapodici.com/2023/07/15/no-local-gpu-no-proble...

T4 I think was good enough for the job, not much need for the A100.

Since this post I am working on an easy way to do this with a script called lob.py that requires no code changes to the nanoGPT repo (or whatever repo you are using) and runs in modal.com. The script exists but gets refined as I use it. Once it is battle tested a bit more I will do a post.

(It is named lob.py as it "lobs the code over to the server" where lob is UK slang for throw)

Watch this space.

Re: Attention Is Off By One

#205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was thinking about a different problem as I was typing that and got some mental memory alias bug. I wanted to know a set of steps to take to train a model. My apologies. In any case, that was an lmgtfy-level question. Here's what I found: https://til.simonwillison.net/llms/training-nanogpt-on-my-bl... I shall try that soon.

Shaaaaameless plug: I did a writeup like this. (Not as nicely as Simon though) where I modal.com (cloud GPU, containers, quick starts, free $30/m spend) to use their GPUs (e.g. T4, A100). https://martincapodici.com/2023/07/15/no-local-gpu-no-proble... T4 I think was good enough for the job, not much need for the A100. Since this post I am working on an easy way to do this with a script called lob.py that requires no…

Thank you. FWIW I often find write-up + script superior to script because I often want to modify. e.g. I want to run GPU-only, but other script provide part-way solution when textual description added. Therefore, much appreciated.

Re: Attention Is Off By One

#206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nah, scientific papers are supposed to be precise and technical. This reads like those quite frequent suggestions here of switching all equations in papers to plain English or code: it honestly comes from a place of ignorance, and I say that as basically a layman myself. What should be encouraged is for academics to blog about their research as well. It would even help when recruiting and onboarding new members. Righ…

There was this sociologist who had written a paper for us all to read ahead of time. I started to read the damn thing, and my eyes were coming out: I couldn’t make head nor tail of it! I figured it was because I hadn’t read any of the books on the list. I had this uneasy feeling of “I’m not adequate,” until finally I said to myself “I’m gonna stop, and read one sentence slowly so I can figure out what the hell it mea…

> There was this sociologist

Found the problem.

Re: Attention Is Off By One

#207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You seem to really disregard the positions of this author. They seem to have invested substantial efforts in that specific area of research. To validate the idea the author has, it would be required to train a LLM from zero. If the author is right, you would get similar results to the current generation of LLMs, but with (a lot) less space required for the intermediate layers. The time to achieve that is still measur…

You don't need to train a ChatGPT-sized LLM, a toy nanoGPT would have been enough. You can train those on a consumer GPU in an afternoon. And yes I do disregard his research effort. There are hundreds of well-justified and well-researched "clever tricks" for improving Transformers, and almost all of them don't work. I'll believe it when I see the results.

Outliers only begin to appear around 3B parameters (as per the original LLM.int8 paper) so unfortunately not consumer GPU in an afternoon kinda stuff to prove you've managed to suppress them.

Re: Attention Is Off By One

#208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've told this story before! It used to be writing the outputs from the C/C++ preprocessor (.i files) to disk took forever (5+ minutes IIRC) with Microsoft's compilers. I asked one of the lead compiler developers why, and he waved me away saying it was just really complicated. Around that time a bunch of tools existed for GCC that worked with .i files, but none existed in the Microsoft ecosystem likely because writin…

But that's not the type of story that's being claimed from the person I responded to. Of course the lead developer waved you off. You wondered why things took forever, and the lead developer knew it was a complicated system and figured it wasn't worth their time investigating. It happened to be incorrect, but the lead developer wasn't in denial. They just filtered the issue out because they can't afford to go down ev…

It's 2 anecdotes to your 1. Anecdotes are useless, but you are down by 1. I suggest you call for reinforcements, or make a hasty retreat.

Re: Attention Is Off By One

#209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nah, scientific papers are supposed to be precise and technical. This reads like those quite frequent suggestions here of switching all equations in papers to plain English or code: it honestly comes from a place of ignorance, and I say that as basically a layman myself. What should be encouraged is for academics to blog about their research as well. It would even help when recruiting and onboarding new members. Righ…

The writing quality of academic papers is very poor, whatever its intended characteristics are, and we deserve better. I'm skeptical that the only way for them to be precise and technical is to make them impenetrable. I think there is a culture of academic writing (many different cultures, really) that has adopted a voice and writing style which became a parody of itself over time. Here's a trivial example: You frequ…

I'm convinced that the value of active voice is not precision and clarity, but rather the subliminal egocentrism away from the object (the research) towards the subject (the researchers) who need to receive credit for the work. The royal "we" also helps frame the work as a collaborative effort with the audience.

Re: Attention Is Off By One

#210
post #197
post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You could test this on a toy Transformer-based model trainable on a consumer GPU.

Do outlier features emerge in sub-100M parameter models? I haven't seen any research discuss it below the 124M scale (bert-base). At that scale training a model takes ~4 days on an 8xA100 node.

That is a fair question, and in addition I'm unsure that a simple metric like perplexity is likely to pick it up.

However, I do think that if perplexity showed a lower drop-off using this modified softmax under quantization that would be an exciting finding and enough to indicate further experiments would definitely be worth doing.

But you are right - if it doesn't show an improvement it doesn't necessarily rule out that it could be helping.

Edit: In the Qualcomm AI paper mentioned in this post, they experiment on BERT uncased (109B param) and OPT 125M and are able to show the effects using perplexity.

I hadn't read the paper when I suggested the same approach, so I guess that is good validation it is worth trying.

Edit2: Actually they also test on ViT 22M, which would be even quicker to try I think.

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