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Climate records tumble, leaving Earth in uncharted territory – scientists

bbc.co.uk

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Re: Climate records tumble, leaving Earth in uncharted territory – scientists

#201

Post by myshpa »

junon wrote: post #193
myshpa wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Be the change that you wish to see in the world." - Mahatma Gandhi This quote emphasizes the idea that if individuals embody and practice positive values and actions, it can lead to a significant impact on the world around them. Similarly, if everyone were to act rightly, it would undoubtedly result in a different and improved world.

> if everyone were to act rightly Yes, but that's not reality. Hoping for the best whilst not actually making a dent in carbon emissions is not helping the problem at all.

All significant changes in the past came from people loudly demanding change, be it through mass protests, civil rights movements, revolutionary actions, or the collective voice of individuals seeking justice and progress. These impassioned calls for change have driven societies to challenge existing norms, break down oppressive systems, and pave the way for a more equitable and inclusive future.

People have to change themselves first (to break the walls built by others) to want to change the society.

Hope is not hopium. Hope is necessary for any action to take place.

Re: Climate records tumble, leaving Earth in uncharted territory – scientists

#202

Post by NoMoreNicksLeft »

Lorkki wrote: post #124
NoMoreNicksLeft wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The expert opinions that come from the same people who don't want it to happen? How much are those worth?

It would be pretty strange for experts to recommend doing something that they consider ineffective or harmful.

It would be strange, if this were truly an emergency, for people who believed it to be an emergency of the highest degree...

To whine and screech "that's too dangerous, don't do that" when other people were proposing solutions. These are the same people who are touted as the experts, mind you. This means that when journalists and talking heads and other jackasses say "but the experts don't even think those things will work", they are talking about the same people who claim that there is an emergency in the first place.

They aren't interested in potential solutions. It's just an attempt to wrestle political power away from those who currently have it and implement economy-murdering policy because they're mad poor people eat meat.

Re: Climate records tumble, leaving Earth in uncharted territory – scientists

#203

Post by bmitc »

H8crilA wrote: post #150
bmitc wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure what your point is or what you're responding to.

To the comment above. The point is that fewer widgets is not going to cut it unless you force the poor countries to stay poor. I assumed people know world's energy consumption breakdown (cement, food, heating, electrical energy, chemical processes, ...), and what does that imply if most of the world catches up to more or less developed levels. If not I recommend starting education there.

I don't think reducing consumption is at odds with increasing the sustainability of energy, and I wouldn't and didn't suggest otherwise anyway. They both should be done.

> If not I recommend starting education there.

If you have some references to educate, then I'm more than willing to read them.

Re: Climate records tumble, leaving Earth in uncharted territory – scientists

#204

Post by sheepdestroyer »

wappieslurkz wrote: post #176
_l4jh wrote: post #94

Anecdotal story time. We have a family villa in Spain about an hour and a half south of Alicante. We just got back from two weeks there like we do every year. The heat and humidity this time was the first time it was too much so that we didn’t enjoy our time there. We’ve had this place 21 years. Yes it’s Spain and it’s always hot which is why we bought it but this year was something else. The mix of both very high te…

21 years of all that travelling back and forth to a family vacation home... My flight shame would kill me. How did/do you deal with that?

Why do you assume flight? There's train from Lyon to Alicante. Drive time is similar. It's a ~12h travel, nothing unheard of for a vacation trip.

Re: Climate records tumble, leaving Earth in uncharted territory – scientists

#205

Post by vkou »

myshpa wrote: post #200
vkou wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, it's the other way around. Towns and cities are actually far more resource efficient than rural and suburban sprawl. The only inefficient thing in them is highrises. But five-story buildings are incredibly infrastructure-efficient. Walking through a midrise neighborhood puts you past more people per minute, than driving 120 mph through a suburb.

> No, it's the other way around When everything works as intended. In a collapse everything changes. Imagine energy grid not working, no tap water, non-existent food supply, money is worthless ... such kind of future.

> Imagine energy grid not working, no tap water, non-existent food supply, money is worthless ... such kind of future.

Unless you're a subsistence peasant, which 99.9% of rural and semi-rural (suruban) people aren't, you're going to have the same exact problems from a lack of all those things.

Re: Climate records tumble, leaving Earth in uncharted territory – scientists

#206

Post by myshpa »

vkou wrote: post #205
myshpa wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> No, it's the other way around When everything works as intended. In a collapse everything changes. Imagine energy grid not working, no tap water, non-existent food supply, money is worthless ... such kind of future.

> Imagine energy grid not working, no tap water, non-existent food supply, money is worthless ... such kind of future. Unless you're a subsistence peasant, which 99.9% of rural and semi-rural (suruban) people aren't , you're going to have the same exact problems from a lack of all those things.

Yes, it's gonna end up badly for most.

Re: Climate records tumble, leaving Earth in uncharted territory – scientists

#207

Post by anonzzzies »

dathos wrote: post #180
MrVandemar wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No agriculture. Broadscale monoculture crops, grown and harvested and distributed with fossil-fuel inputs. Essentially an outdoors factory.

Agriculture which is used to feed the animals. Look at soy in the Amazon, most is used in the meat industry

Probably most, but here (south eu) a lot of forest is being and was cut down for planting shitty fruit trees and other crops (not for animals; for humans & cosmetics) that are no substitute for what was removed.

Re: Climate records tumble, leaving Earth in uncharted territory – scientists

#208

Post by fulafel »

anonzzzies wrote: post #59
uxcolumbo wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This study[0] and several other studies by UN, Oxford Uni etc disagree with you. The single best thing an individual can do is immensely reduce or completely avoid meat and dairy. Imagine millions and millions of people doing this, behavioural change will trigger system’s change. It’s something we can do today, just need to decide whether having a burger is more important or not. [0] https://www.nature.com/articles/s…

> Imagine millions and millions of people doing this But they won't. Even here on HN, where some smart people roam, touching their meat (like, eating LESS of it, not quitting altogether) will make them into incoherent angry (I guess) men. And that's of course a big step, smaller steps are even not a thing for many people; not flying, no car, hell, here people even refuse to obey the law of not topping up (or filling)…

Lots of people, also on HN, now follow climate friendly diets. In reality it is the meat eaters, not vegans, who are very loud and vocal about their diet.

But I agree we need much stronger regulation.

Re: Climate records tumble, leaving Earth in uncharted territory – scientists

#209

Post by bevesce- »

uxcolumbo wrote: post #105
Ekaros wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why stop at meat and dairy. Why not go all the way, select handful of optimal foods and only allow those to be sold or grown. Anyone doing anything else would heavily punished? After all, if we ban beef. We have accepted that taste has no meaning in life and we can just ban everything not mandatory like spices and herbs.

Do you think that only animal flesh derived foods are tasty? It's about cutting out food that create the biggest damage to our biosphere, which is the large scale meat & dairy industry. RE: Why not go all the way, select handful of optimal foods and only allow those to be sold or grown. [...] ban everything not mandatory like spices and herbs. This is not about banning meat & dairy. And you can't seriously compare me…

I'm eating vegetarian food most of the time, with an exception from time to time. I've tried doing vegan. Vegan food can be tasty or even very tasty. No vegan food is as good as steak or cheese. Another thing is that I have no idea how to eat enough protein, on vegan diet, without feeling terrible.

Re: Climate records tumble, leaving Earth in uncharted territory – scientists

#210

Post by Animats »

defrost wrote: post #119
psychphysic wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks for posting the link so I could see the article. I did only skim it, and I'm surprised. I don't think it's an unreasonable criticism for 1997. But that's over a quarter of a century ago. He accepts CO2 is probably released by humans and apparently at a rate the sinks can't cope. He accepts that CO2 and other greenhouse gasses can lead to warming. But says that the data thus far had not borne out global warming…

Perhaps you're young. I'm 60 and have spent much of my life in geophysics applied to energy and minerals exploration, in the development of earth scale GIS mapping and computation tools, etc. In 1980 in computational dynamics classes looking at geophysics it was accepted that the volumes of CO2 being released were at a scale that would trap more energy and that steps need to be taken to reduce free CO2. This was scop…

Right.

A side effect was that studies of climate change in that period tended to avoid erring in the direction of overestimating climate change. Looking back at predictions from 20-25 years ago, CO2, global temperature rise, and sea level rise predictions were pretty close. The side effects of those changes were way underestimated.[1] "We "underestimated the dramatic increase in persistent weather extremes like the unprecedented heat waves, droughts, wildfires and floods we’ve witnessed in recent years."

We used to see statements that there might be some trouble by 2050, and real trouble by 2100. We're seeing real trouble now.

[1] https://www.onlineathens.com/story/news/environment/2019/12/...

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