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The past is not true

sive.rs

201–210 of 362 posts

Re: The past is not true

#201
post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Look at it this way, officers see car accidents every day. The majority are cases where someone ran directly into the car in front of them due to inattention. Humans make a lot of mistakes and unless there were extenuating factors (DUI, for example), they are very unlikely to become criminal. In many cases, they wouldn't even be ticketed. Given that there was a yield sign involved, it also may be a known problematic…

That's very surprising to me. Here in the UK, a serious accident where someone broke their spine would be investigated without a shadow of a doubt. They would want to rule out any criminal culpability.

In some states in the US, if one party was even 1% at fault (like, for example, being distracted like in the story), they may not even be able to collect damages from the other party.

Our system is really weird.

Re: The past is not true

#202

I had this moment during the Covid pandemic. I read a lot of history and I saw pictures of the Spanish influenza and was told it killed more people than WW1. Somehow I pictured the world in the late 1910s with everyone sick and in hospital but now I think it was more like Covid. People got sick and died but life went on and some people were completely unaffected. The world doesn't grind to a halt for world wars and p…

Images play a big role in how events are perceived. Whenever there's a natural disaster you tend to see all of the worst examples, even if they're not fully representative of the event. But I think it's sometimes necessary in order to get people to take these events seriously, since they can negatively affect so many people. Otherwise people might look at images where some things look normal and think that those who…

The 2020 protests were either dangerous or ok depending on where you were and the time of day. Minneapolis had a lot of damage and someone was even burned to death in their store. US insurance costs were over $1B.

Re: The past is not true

#204
post #59

This touches on Narrative Therapy. Events happened, yes. Facts are immutable and can't be changed or wished away simply because they are inconvenient. Rather, how we make sense of them—and internalize them—affects our lives in significant ways, especially if the prevaling narrative we believe about ourselves prevents us from thriving. https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/therapy-types/narrative-t...

Similar message, among many other valuable bits, in the book The Courage to be Disliked. Very good read, no fluff like a lot of psychology books. The title is misleading, there’s a strong element of being helpful to others rather than being disliked. I’d recommend it to anyone.

I've read this book and many others like it. I completely agree with your assessment. I felt really good when I read this book and others. But afterwards I go back to feeling bad about myself as always

Re: The past is not true

#205

He did the right thing by seeking her out to apologize. The rest doesn’t hold water. “There’s a small chance that the chaos and ruin I’ve visited upon others may not be as bad as as those people made me think. Thanks, I knew my negligence/malice wasn’t that big a deal.” The worst people that I’ve ever met would love for that to be true. They’ll stab people in the back or work to damage people’s careers and when you c…

More here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36803982

Re: The past is not true

#206

He did the right thing by seeking her out to apologize. The rest doesn’t hold water. “There’s a small chance that the chaos and ruin I’ve visited upon others may not be as bad as as those people made me think. Thanks, I knew my negligence/malice wasn’t that big a deal.” The worst people that I’ve ever met would love for that to be true. They’ll stab people in the back or work to damage people’s careers and when you c…

>They’ll stab people in the back or work to damage people’s careers

Why didn't you stop them?

I think your comment was well intended, but it actually comes from the same place that causes a lot of the hurt: a lack of reflection. Even right there, you are trying to qualify harm without recognizing it. "Actual harm" as somehow being far greater and more deserving of consequences than regular harm, but there isn't. This is another narrative we tell ourselves to make ourselves feel better.

So I hope you do take your own advice seriously. Most of the time, it's not the "worst people that I've ever met" - it's our own image.

Re: The past is not true

#207

I had this moment during the Covid pandemic. I read a lot of history and I saw pictures of the Spanish influenza and was told it killed more people than WW1. Somehow I pictured the world in the late 1910s with everyone sick and in hospital but now I think it was more like Covid. People got sick and died but life went on and some people were completely unaffected. The world doesn't grind to a halt for world wars and p…

COVID is not a good model for the Spanish influenza.

I highly recommend The Great Influenza:

https://www.amazon.com/Great-Influenza-Deadliest-Pandemic-Hi...

We were so desperately lucky. It was not "like covid".

Re: The past is not true

#208
A couple things are being confused by the author. Correcting bad memories is one thing. That occurs when we receive new evidence or knowledge that contradicts the memory. This is simply your every day revision of beliefs in practice. Nothing new to see here. But note: there is a justification here. There is knowledge that motivates the revision. There is also good will, a desire to submit to the truth. Willfulness, on the other hand, puts what we want to be the case above what is the case. This is at the core of pride, queen of the vices, and delusion.

"History is not true. You can change history. The actual factual events are such a small part of the story."

Well...no. Facts are a huge page of the story. They're kind of the whole point, if by facts we mean that which is true (the word "fact" is problematic, but the quotation, as well as the title of the article, draw an equivalence between fact and truth). We may not have all the facts, we may be mistaken about them, or we may not yet have inferred some truth. And where we can't reasonable know the truth, we will simply lack that knowledge, leaving us capable of only speculating about possibilities. But there is a truth of the matter. It's not whatever you want it to be.

Once in the past, facts are immutable, as it were. That the past only exists as a memory does not give you license to toy with that memory in one direction or the other, in your (ostensible) favor. I say "ostensible" because willful self-deception (which is what attempts to tweak memories is) does a few things that are harmful. First, it destroys our connection with reality. I don't think I need to explain why that's bad. Second, denial is repression of uncomfortable truths (or at least what we hold to be true), and not like overwriting a file on disk. It's more like sweeping a dangerous animal under the rug. It reach out from under and bite you, you will trip over it even when it is sleeping. Occasionally, it will lash out from under the rug and cause terror. There will always be a lingering anxiety about the ever present possibility that it will escape from under our control and attack us or something we care about. A repressed truth introduces all sorts of weird tensions into the psyche, perverting our perception of reality, enslaving us to fear. That's the paradox: caging uncomfortable truths makes them our greatest enemy and gives them power over us. Acknowledging them sets us free. Repression is only something we use to suppress inappropriate impulses or desires (the basis for self-discipline and the moral life), not the truth; indeed, failing to repress inappropriate impulses alienates us from the truth, not least of all because it entails a repression of the truth to enable the indulgence of that desire and a weakening of the intellectual faculties. Repressing guilt always leads to self-destruction. It's why human history is full of human and animal sacrifice. (It's also why, in Christianity, God provides Himself as the perfect sacrifice, as the Lamb of God, bloodlessly offered at each Catholic mass on the altar, and why the sacrament of penance exists: to accuse oneself before God and receive absolution.) Guilt will destroy you, but denial only doubles its power, not to mention the added guilt of having repressed the guilt. The psychotherapy industry is funded by the guilty conscience. But if you think denial is some kind of escape hatch, sorry. That ways lies madness.

Re: The past is not true

#209
post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The historical context also misses a lot of what we know about the impact of malnutrition and stress on the immune system. Was the spanish flu actually that bad, or was it actually a fairly bad flu that wreaked havoc on a war-torn population? Reconciling modern information with historical events is hard. But I think it's completely necessary if we're going to make policy decisions based on history.

The Spanish flu really was very bad but would not have killed as many people if it occurred today. Malnutrition might have been a factor (though today's obesity rate might also be a problem) but the bigger thing was lack of antibiotics. Flu almost never kills you directly- it's the bacterial pneumonia you develop on top of it that does. Without antibiotics back then there would have been little they could do

Bacterial Pneumonia was not the novel danger of the "Spanish" flu; They cytokine storm it caused in perfectly healthy people was horrifying, with perfectly healthy people who would normally fight off any flu dying from this one. A lot of young twenty somethings, strong people who were not malnourished died from it.

Hell, people got cytokine storms from COVID-19 and we still can only treat it if we catch it really early, otherwise it's still a great way to die for a normal person.

Re: The past is not true

#210

history doesn't exist. at most we have "historiography": the made up mythical tale of the past[3]. why? it's easier to remember[2,4] in oral cultures people just re-adjust their memory, subconsciously[1] in written culture, people burn books, driven by their leaders.[2] in transitional cultures, 'bad' comments are donwvoted, or moderated away, or the users get shadowbanned[2] [1] "Orality and Literacy" by Walter J. O…

I think you're wrong about historiography (and your highschool history teacher too). "History" is accounts (stories) about the past. "Historiography" isn't about the past; it's an account of how historians "do" history. I mean, historiography would include accounts of how past historians used to do history.

> I think you're wrong about historiography (and your highschool history teacher too).

you're wrong about me being wrong. I remembered a little better now:

"there is no history, the proper name of this subject is historiography" he taught us this

but also, your reply suggests you missed the point (and my teacher's) that there is no history, it's all accounts by some "historian"

I would use the name meta-history, or 'philosophy of history' for what you describe as 'historiography'.

then again, maybe you're just being nitpicky about things and are focusing on what I said wrong instead of on the point i was trying to make

further again, I cannot help but notice how going forwards "metahistory" may even be understood as the story behind Mark Zuckerberg's giant coorporation

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