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Effect of perceptual load on performance within IDE in people with ADHD symptoms

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Re: Effect of perceptual load on performance within IDE in people with ADHD symptoms

#201

I had something flickering in my IDE the other day while I was trying to learn my way around a large monolithic codebase at a new job. I couldn't executive function well enough to stop/hide the flickering, and I couldn't ignore it. I eventually had a meltdown and left the room (wfh, thankfully). It took me hours to recover. Having a tidy, visually "muted" workspace - both in a literal sense (the IDE) as well as a con…

This hits home. Especially the "hours to recover" part. I never quite appreciate how long it takes to right the ship after a day like that. Do you have any tips for how you structure your digital workspace? Favourite tools or methods to help support your executive functioning?

This series of videos by Airforce Col. Mark D. Jacobsen may be helpful:

"Tools for the Life of the Mind. These videos are intended to help my students at the Air Force's School of Advanced Air & Space Studies (SAASS) develop effective mindsets and workflows for doing rigorous academic work. I will introduce a range of available tools and discuss my own workflows. Although SAASS-focused, they should appeal to anyone interested in productivity and learning."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KE87q3jjFlg&list=PLHmevVAAXt...

Re: Effect of perceptual load on performance within IDE in people with ADHD symptoms

#202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It is for this reason that I try to write what I feel is very obvious or self-explanatory code [...] I don't have ADHD, but, for different reasons, my brain seems to work in a similar manner. And, I have developed coping strategies similar to those applied with people on the ADHD spectrum [1][2]. My anxiety around coding has reduced a significantly when I learned about TDD and started writing code made of very smal…

> My anxiety around coding has reduced a significantly when I learned about TDD and started writing code made of very small, composable chunks. you definitely do not have ADHD, then. I find these absolutely impossible to trace through when I want to find out what a program is actually doing, in reality . if I have to find the actual logic used in main or whatever event handler, and it's in a function called by a func…

Hehe, I agree with what you're saying here, but I think you might've misunderstood me.

> put the logic where it fucking goes, inline with its use! right there! nowhere else! don't nest it behind abstractions you don't NEED.

What you're talking about here looks more like over-abstracting. What I'm talking about is having understandable components with simple, easy to understand behaviour. I think we're on the same page.

I want to be able to understand what the component does at the first glance. I also want to be able to understand what a larger part of the system does at the first glance. But, overall, I'll always err on the side of _under-abstracting_ and duplication, like you.

One might argue that software development is about 1) defining a business problem, _then_ 2) communication (usually with "ghosts" i.e. another developer who is not in the room with you[1]), then writing the implementation. My philosophy on the subject is like this: https://sonnet.io/posts/code-sober-debug-drunk/

TL;DR it's always easier to write code than to read it, be kind to the next person reading it (it might be you)

[1] https://sonnet.io/posts/emotive-conjugation/#:~:text=Ghost%2...

Re: Effect of perceptual load on performance within IDE in people with ADHD symptoms

#203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Visual studio proper is a 100% circus for me now. I can power through it, but I lose tabs in about 15 seconds after opening them. I used to be the same way but then I discovered Visual Studio's vertical tab option. Tabs are displayed vertically on the left side of the editor pane. The filenames are all aligned so it's actually possible to visually scan them. You can group them by project and color code them by file…

My Google Fu is pretty good and I cannot find how to do this. I love vertical tabs in Firefox and never considered doing this in VSCode. How!? edit: on linux at least the process linked below doesn't work... https://domysee.com/blogposts/vscode-vertical-tabs

I was talking about Visual Studio proper, not VSCode.

Re: Effect of perceptual load on performance within IDE in people with ADHD symptoms

#204

Even "lite" editors like VSCode, NP++, Sublime Text, etc have become distracting for me. Every time I fire one of these things up, my mental state is eliminated by being forced to dismiss some "hey we got a new version for you :D:D:D" bullshit modal. To whomever is responsible for adding these to apps: please stop. No one is enjoying your shenanigans. It is a text editor . Empathize with the user: People with far les…

VS Code isn't actually that bad with its extension and application updates. When an extension has been updated, it'll try to load the new version in-memory (if the extension supports it), otherwise it'll add a badge to the Extensions panel icon in the sidebar, leaving a subtle reminder that you need to restart in order to get the new extension update. For updates to VS Code proper, it adds a badge to the settings ico…

VS Code:

* Opens a welcome tab anytime you open a project

* Pops up unsolicited toast notifications for new file extensions, "we have extensions which can help you with that file type!"

* Opens "what's new" type tabs anytime it updates

* Starts the "jumping up and down" MacOS dock animation for sometimes trivial problems

I could list more examples, but suffice it to say, this is...not ideal. I love VS Code, so for fresh/unsync'ed installs I'm willing to meticulously trawl through its settings, twiddling various knobs to disable these multifarious annoyances. But hey, it's worth it (to me).

Re: Effect of perceptual load on performance within IDE in people with ADHD symptoms

#205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It is for this reason that I try to write what I feel is very obvious or self-explanatory code [...] I don't have ADHD, but, for different reasons, my brain seems to work in a similar manner. And, I have developed coping strategies similar to those applied with people on the ADHD spectrum [1][2]. My anxiety around coding has reduced a significantly when I learned about TDD and started writing code made of very smal…

> My anxiety around coding has reduced a significantly when I learned about TDD and started writing code made of very small, composable chunks. you definitely do not have ADHD, then. I find these absolutely impossible to trace through when I want to find out what a program is actually doing, in reality . if I have to find the actual logic used in main or whatever event handler, and it's in a function called by a func…

This is why I like more bottom-up approaches to coding. Code broken up sorta arbitrarily, that's compressed moreso than abstracted, is hard to follow. But, when there's a reasonably small set of solid domain abstractions (even extremely complex ones in implementation), that's totally fine. This is where preferences vary; some folks have committed nuances of various helper libraries to memory, and find it easier to process a `fuse_zip` combinator or whatever than a loop, but for the readers who'd need to look that up, it's an attention land-mine.

API design, abstraction design, is a type of UX design, and like other forms of design, accessibility is a concern. Keeping the vocabulary fairly small and the abstractions well-behaved and consistent help nearly everyone, but particular ADHD folk.

Re: Effect of perceptual load on performance within IDE in people with ADHD symptoms

#206

Even "lite" editors like VSCode, NP++, Sublime Text, etc have become distracting for me. Every time I fire one of these things up, my mental state is eliminated by being forced to dismiss some "hey we got a new version for you :D:D:D" bullshit modal. To whomever is responsible for adding these to apps: please stop. No one is enjoying your shenanigans. It is a text editor . Empathize with the user: People with far les…

My baseless posthoc justification:

  1. ADHD superengineers could be representing more than 0.0% but below 0% of all users.
  2. A lot of ADHD-specific optimizations, e.g. fast transitions without frustrating gooey animations, distraction-free UI without tips and emojis, could be detrimental to telemetry items that:
    a) do represent non-ADHD needs, and also;
    b) engineer performances are evaluated upon, even for Free Software these days.

Re: Effect of perceptual load on performance within IDE in people with ADHD symptoms

#207
post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In practice it does occur very often. I’d suggest not ascribing your own experience to my own. I’ve been professionally coding in Python for over a decade in very varied codebases. There are tons of libraries in many companies that use dynamic attribute lookups for efficiency reasons, when adapting to different data sources and the like. Or pass through lookups on nested objects. Or they’re dynamically looked up on b…

[flagged]

Your code is not what I’m describing at all. You’re just talking past me without actually trying to understand what I’m saying or reading the specifics.

A Python instance is effectively a dictionary. The contents of that dictionary can be mutated at runtime to disagree with the type that is specified. This is perhaps an antipattern but it’s not uncommon.

Attribute lookups can be dynamic as well without any typing. The typing can be lofted out and specified at the lookup site but that is also no guarantee of what you’ll get at runtime.

You cannot type check this dunder method access.

class A(dict):

    def __getattr__(self, name):

       return self[name]
You may say “oh but that’s uncommon or bad practice” but it’s unfortunately quite common in many production systems because Python has encouraged embracing its dynamicism for decades. That’s not a flaw, that’s a power. But it definitely has its pros and cons.

One may also say that “well that’s just void pointer casting in C or other languages”, which is also true and equally problematic. That’s why newer compiled languages like Rust and Swift have options for sum types / enums that carry a value to design around it in a type safe manner.

———

To your other point on courtesy…

If I say you’re unfamiliar with the details, it’s because you yourself said you aren’t sure YET you claim your world view of type checking is correct and dynamicism is rare. You don’t read my comments and substitute your own.

If I am being rude it is only because your default world view appears to be “the ideal in my head is the way it is”.

Take for example when you say “your rebuttal almost never occurs” or when you say pretty much every tech company uses type checking. You ascribe your own world view with no room for greys or real world variance.

If I say: “but this is my experience” your response is “well that’s not the reality for most cases”. So if I am rude it is because you talk in absolutes and only correct yourself when pushed back upon.

Perhaps do not talk so assuredly in general. Your experiences are not that of others yet you talk as if they’re the norm.

So if I am rude, it is because you are being rude in your responses and perhaps don’t realize it. You’ve basically told everyone who’s responded to you that their experiences aren’t correct.

Anyway I shall not respond further to you because this discussion is hyper fixating on something that was only intended to be an example. It serves no purpose to continue arguing

Re: Effect of perceptual load on performance within IDE in people with ADHD symptoms

#208
This is why I use nvim with minimal plugins. It is hilarious to me that an IDE has a distraction free or "zen" mode. Like that is the mode it always needs to be in my friends! Who wants a "full of distractions" mode on the tool they use to get work done.

Also, why would I need an on-screen button for something I can just do with the keyboard I am already touching?

Re: Effect of perceptual load on performance within IDE in people with ADHD symptoms

#209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It is for this reason that I try to write what I feel is very obvious or self-explanatory code [...] I don't have ADHD, but, for different reasons, my brain seems to work in a similar manner. And, I have developed coping strategies similar to those applied with people on the ADHD spectrum [1][2]. My anxiety around coding has reduced a significantly when I learned about TDD and started writing code made of very smal…

> My anxiety around coding has reduced a significantly when I learned about TDD and started writing code made of very small, composable chunks. you definitely do not have ADHD, then. I find these absolutely impossible to trace through when I want to find out what a program is actually doing, in reality . if I have to find the actual logic used in main or whatever event handler, and it's in a function called by a func…

> you definitely do not have ADHD, then

I do have ADHD (clinically diagnosed), and I disagree 100% with this statement (at least the certainty of it). In my experience, TDD and writing small chunks greatly reduces my anxiety and increases my productivity by helping me to narrow the scope of the task I'm working on.

Different people have very different experiences despite having the same diagnosis. What is exclusionary for one person may be the exact opposite for someone else.

Re: Effect of perceptual load on performance within IDE in people with ADHD symptoms

#210
post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I lost my reading tendency when life got harder. The urgency and anxiety around keeping up with everyday life made activities like reading almost unsettling slow and “unproductive”. I realized that and did something about it, but I didn’t allow myself to enjoy a book for around 10 years. Not sure if that resonates with you (I hope not!) but I figured I’d mention it just in case. I was totally unaware of what I was do…

What did you do about it? I'm exclusively a vacation reader. When I have limited free time, reading competes with other hobbies or media and almost never wins just because a book is such a huge time investment compared to a movie or a video game and I'd really like to change that.

I use a kindle set to the lowest brightness setting and really make a point of reading before I sleep most nights.

I’ve drilled it into my head that if I’m not reading or focused on quality sleep, everything else will suffer. It’s been true for decades and I’ve been disappointed by finding it out again enough times that I generally believe it now.

No phone, no late night computer/work, just reading if I’m not asleep and otherwise sleep. It’s so important.

I don’t claim to be a particularly intelligent person by any means. This change has done wonders for being less stupid, however. Reading really does stimulate your brain in such positive ways. You probably won’t notice when you’ve stopped for a while and that’s a serious shame; we’d probably all read more if it was more obvious how much better we are when we do it. And of course the sleep hygiene plays a huge role too.

Occasionally I fall off the wagon for a week or two due to family stuff. To be honest, my wife hates that I read at night, and that’s friction as well. When your brain has a tendency to work against you though, you really do need to take action to build routines that keep you sane and on a good trajectory. My wife would hate it more if I allowed myself to sleep less and indulge in other things in the evening, so this is a lesser evil that keeps my cup full so to speak and helps me stay on track.

ADHD is all about the pit of success and elimination of problematic systems or temptations, in my experience. Make it hard to fail.

Edit: I should add that while it seems boring or impossible with limited time, the routine encourages better sleep (at least in my case) and as a result, better results of my efforts through the subsequent days and weeks and so on. I end up with more time to do stuff I like because I’m not making as many poor choices due to a lack of sleep, corresponding poorer diet, decreased productivity, etc.

I struggled with this part for most of my life and didn’t truly believe it would make a difference until it did. I’m a much better person when I let myself sleep. My brain yells at me not to most nights, but it I can cut through that I will have a better following day without fail. That effect compounds far better than I would have guessed before.

The whole basis of making this work is the commitment and ideally interest in cozying up with a book you want to read. Soon after, because you aren’t 13 anymore, you will pass out. If not, you gain the significant benefit of having not been staring at a screen, engaged in thought, eating, worrying, etc. Your sleep quality will increase even if you read extra some nights.

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