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Disney, Netflix, and more are fighting FTC's 'click to cancel' proposal

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Re: Disney, Netflix, and more are fighting FTC's 'click to cancel' proposal

#201
post #69

Netflix is such a crook. I had cancelled my subscription a while ago. They gave me the rest of the month to watch (since i already paid that month). Well, I had cancelled because I don't watch anymore. Guess what? Since it was a family plan, my father end up watching on his house, in another city. So Netflix renew the subscription. Fun right? I get a message everytime my card gets charged, that's why I noticed I was…

UPDATE 2

After not being able to find any email or conversation with the support I was able to log back in Netflix and get a history of charges to my credit cards, which is still stored in their system.

Dates are in DD/MM/YYYY format

https://victorribeiro.com/netflix.jpg

Re: Disney, Netflix, and more are fighting FTC's 'click to cancel' proposal

#202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not paying a debt you legitimately owe doesn’t eliminate the legitimacy of the debt. Most app owners probably won’t take any further action against you because it’s not usually worth the time and money (at least in the US), but they’re entitled to. If they sell your debt to a debt collector, have fun with that. (Tangent: there is usually a certain number of years of inaction after which they can’t go after you for th…

Charging me for a service I've asked to cancel doesn't really feel legitimate either. I've been through this with a gym that wouldn't cancel and then got sent to collections, which honestly just showed me how worthless collections is. So I get a few more spam calls or spam mails - I'm already ignoring those anyway.

The next time you apply for anything that depends on your credit history, the collections history will show up on the credit report (assuming you’re in a country that has those - far more than just the US) and either cause your application to be refused or to be approved with bad terms. This will stay on the credit report for years.

It’s probably not worth anyone’s time to go after you more aggressively than that merely for the amount of a gym membership, but if they so choose they’re absolutely allowed to sue you to get a court judgment which appropriate authorities will enforce for them against your assets and income. For larger debts, this is in no way unlikely, if they think you can afford to pay.

To be clear, I support the proposed FTC rule and think it should be as easy to cancel as to sign up. But that procedural question is separate from what commitments may exist. for example, if they give you a discount for a 12-month commitment but still allow you to pay monthly, or if they only offer memberships with a minimum commitment of 12 months, canceling in month 3 would very reasonably still require you to pay the rest of the current 12-month term before your obligation ends.

For some contracts, I can imagine allowing the alternative of repaying the amount of the discount received so far due to the annual commitment, plus interest on that amount. But if you received and used any perks through the annual commitment which would otherwise not have been available to you, or if they incur significant upfront costs for new members which are amortized across the first 12 months of membership, allowing this would not produce a fair outcome.

Re: Disney, Netflix, and more are fighting FTC's 'click to cancel' proposal

#203
post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have talked to my father, he did not clicked anything. By simple watching after the final date they gave us it triggered a renewal. the solution proposed in the chat was to logout every device at once and delete my credit card so that wouldn't happen again.

Did customer support confirm that that is the feature they were talking about—watching something after renewal triggers the charge? Or is it possible you were talking past each other? The only documentation on Netflix for this doesn't mention this 'feature' [0], and I can't find any discussion of similar cases (which I would expect for something like this). Also, this kind of behavior would unambiguously violate seve…

I ran in to this "feature" in the US as well. I was the only party with my password and opening Netflix on a new device triggered a twice-over auto renewal, which their customer support confirmed is intended behavior. I had to charge back the prior month's renewal as well, as their support was unwilling to refund a charge from more than 7 days ago.

Of course their cancellation numbers are low after the password sharing change - it's very easy to keep that revenue flowing if you're willing to borderline commit fraud to keep your customers.

Re: Disney, Netflix, and more are fighting FTC's 'click to cancel' proposal

#206
post #190

Strange to see Netflix on the list, because here in the UK it's extremely easy to cancel. You just click once and it's done, and you still get to watch for the rest of the month. I'm sure it can't be because of UK law, because we have plenty of other companies here who make cancellations awkward.

Same, here in California I just tried it. Account > (big button at top) Cancel Membership > Finish Cancellation. That's about as perfect as I'd want it. I don't want a cancel button on my main screen and I do want a confirm field when I make destructive actions. Finish Cancellation button is highlighted in Blue and obvious default. Below that is a "downgrade plan" option. There is also a note above Finish Cancellatio…

California has a law that says if you can sign up online, you must cancel online.

A lot of sites geo-restrict online cancellation to certain places where it is required by law.

Re: Disney, Netflix, and more are fighting FTC's 'click to cancel' proposal

#207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not paying a debt you legitimately owe doesn’t eliminate the legitimacy of the debt. Most app owners probably won’t take any further action against you because it’s not usually worth the time and money (at least in the US), but they’re entitled to. If they sell your debt to a debt collector, have fun with that. (Tangent: there is usually a certain number of years of inaction after which they can’t go after you for th…

Non-USA here (which might affect things): Isn't the point of paying with e.g. a Netflix gift card that they auto-cancel/pause your subscription to Netflix after the gift card runs out of funds? How would that incur a debt?

Everything I said is true in many countries outside the US too, except possibly the prohibitive legal cost of pursuing a small unpaid debt in court. In particular, I know for sure that invalidating a payment method does not invalidate an otherwise valid obligation to pay in Canada or Germany, and I think that’s the typical rule worldwide.

If Netflix chooses to cancel or pause the subscription after the gift card runs out of funds, that’s their business decision. It’s probably wise as a practical matter for them to limit access to unpaid services when it won’t usually be worth their time and money to force the matter judicially.

But other things they could choose to do include continuing the subscription and using any and all legal debt collection methods until you catch up on the accrued debt, imposing reasonable penalties for nonpayment as per any specific contract wording or any applicable legal defaults, and claiming any damages and/or lawyer fees incurred depending the specific circumstances and the rules of the relevant legal jurisdiction.

The details do vary between countries and between some countries’ subdivisions, sure. But the general principles of what I’m saying are typically true in most countries.

Re: Disney, Netflix, and more are fighting FTC's 'click to cancel' proposal

#208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A company be responsible for their actions? Where in heaven did you get such a dastardly idea?

The solution to like 90% of all problems: The CEO is legally responsible for every illegal action taken by the company. This is also true for all managers down to the department that caused the illegal action. That's it. Nothing else. You'll see a massive amount of bad behavior from companies instantly stop. When your neck is on the line, you won't do it. Or you'll quit. However given history, this will never occur.…

Make the board liable as well, under both civil and criminal law.

Re: Disney, Netflix, and more are fighting FTC's 'click to cancel' proposal

#209
>Sirius XM wrote in its comments that one proposed requirement — that companies maintain records of phone calls with customers — would cost the company "several million" dollars a year to comply with

Can companies be held accountable for lying like this, on record? They're already tracking.

Re: Disney, Netflix, and more are fighting FTC's 'click to cancel' proposal

#210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did customer support confirm that that is the feature they were talking about—watching something after renewal triggers the charge? Or is it possible you were talking past each other? The only documentation on Netflix for this doesn't mention this 'feature' [0], and I can't find any discussion of similar cases (which I would expect for something like this). Also, this kind of behavior would unambiguously violate seve…

I ran in to this "feature" in the US as well. I was the only party with my password and opening Netflix on a new device triggered a twice-over auto renewal, which their customer support confirmed is intended behavior. I had to charge back the prior month's renewal as well, as their support was unwilling to refund a charge from more than 7 days ago. Of course their cancellation numbers are low after the password shari…

> it's very easy to keep that revenue flowing if you're willing to borderline commit fraud to keep your customers.

Indeed. This really is asking for a lawsuit.

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