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Intel exiting the PC business as it stops investment in the Intel NUC

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Re: Intel exiting the PC business as it stops investment in the Intel NUC

#201

Post by basch »

etempleton wrote: post #196
Aromasin wrote: post #140

Funny enough, I predicted this in a previous HZ comment 3 months ago when they cut their server systems business. > "My guess is that they're cutting the portfolio down to feature only chipsets and add-in cards. Just CPUs, GPUs, FPGAs, ASICs, networking. It makes sense if anything - it really focuses on their core business. No more side-projects with questionable profitability. In the last 2 years since Pat Gelsinger…

I always saw the NUCs as proof of concept for small form factor PCs and to that end I think they have succeeded. There are a ton of different form factors now.

Didn’t Intel used to be pretty up front that the NUC was a way to push computer manufacturers to be more innovative? Sort of like a widely available reference computer.

By making them without RAM and SSD they were never going to be that profitable. It was nice being able to buy boxes without wasted parts you knew you didn’t want.

Re: Intel exiting the PC business as it stops investment in the Intel NUC

#202

Post by nonethewiser »

adrian_b wrote: post #10

This is sad, because the Intel NUCs were some of the last computers with adequate technical documentation. For most modern computers you cannot be 100% sure about what you get for your money, until you have them in your hands and you can run tests yourself. By then, if you discover that the computer is not exactly what you want, it is too late. You cannot get your money back because the computer is not defective, it…

> For most modern computers you cannot be 100% sure about what you get for your money, until you have them in your hands and you can run tests yourself. By then, if you discover that the computer is not exactly what you want, it is too late. You cannot get your money back because the computer is not defective, it is just different from what you expected.

Can you give an example? Clearly you are concerned with more than just the listed specs. Do you mean like RAM and SSD models? Or even lower level than this?

Re: Intel exiting the PC business as it stops investment in the Intel NUC

#203

Post by hbbio »

adrian_b wrote: post #10

This is sad, because the Intel NUCs were some of the last computers with adequate technical documentation. For most modern computers you cannot be 100% sure about what you get for your money, until you have them in your hands and you can run tests yourself. By then, if you discover that the computer is not exactly what you want, it is too late. You cannot get your money back because the computer is not defective, it…

> nobody has made good computers with 35 W CPUs and with a volume of less than 0.5 L

Apple

Re: Intel exiting the PC business as it stops investment in the Intel NUC

#204

Post by petercooper »

klardotsh wrote: post #109
petercooper wrote: post #82

I've always been a fan and have owned a few, but this market is being absolutely flooded with options right now, so I'm not surprised. ETA PRIME is a good YouTube account to follow if you're interested in such things as he seems to review a different mini PC each week (in between all the handheld PCs and SBCs).

I will caution against ETA PRIME. Dude never has a single negative word to say about anything , his channel amounts to a marketing department for Beelink/Minisforum/etc. His GTR6 review (I own one of these machines) didn't talk much or at all about the notorious noise or stuttering problems that plague this machine, for example. I have little reason to trust many of his other reviews in light of that - he puts review…

Fair enough! I use his channel as a way to keep up to date with what exists and is happening in the space rather than for objective reviews (since little he reviews is available in my country anyway) but others might want to take heed of your note.

Re: Intel exiting the PC business as it stops investment in the Intel NUC

#205

Post by javier2 »

jauntywundrkind wrote: post #112
DesiLurker wrote: post #44

I call BS on them being not good market fit, Apple does totally fine with mac mini. also these are just laptops w/o screen and battery. IMO the real reason may be worries around minipcs finally getting good enough that they may cannibalize higher margin PC market. BTW there are other vendors like Beelink that make semi decent tiny computers and I have one of those as my teenage kids pc,works just fine.

> BTW there are other vendors like Beelink that make semi decent tiny computers and I have one of those as my teenage kids pc,works just fine. The issue is, Intel's aiming more upmarket (based on their pricing) for something that doesn't offer a lot more. Intel's done interesting/fun things, such as building the entire motherboard into a single slot sized unit, but going out and buying a Beelink is a better propositi…

I think its a bigger issue that the next gen NUCs will be good enough to cannibalize the rest of the desktop market. Look at the recent amd offerings and the mac mini with M1. They can replace my destop fully. The only reason I have a desktop now is for gaming.

Re: Intel exiting the PC business as it stops investment in the Intel NUC

#206

Post by CameronNemo »

justsomehnguy wrote: post #171
pavlov wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just from anecdotal observation, the iMac seems to have several niches where a fashionable desktop is called for: at least higher-end shops and lobbies, and musicians and other artists who dabble in production enough to need the larger screen but not enough to invest in a more expensive setup. The Mini seems more specialized. I’ve bought many of them over the years for things like video installations, but I never see…

> “regular people use”. For quite some years I just said "buy a notebook and (if you really need it) monitor with keyboard/ mouse". With an SSD and a decent amount of RAM any notebook is fine for 95% of what people want from the home computer, with a small exception of gaming with a better settings than low/middle. At this point nor Mini, nor any other SFF 'desktop' doesn't make sense, because you can't take it with…

IMO a laptop is bulky and inconvenient to place on my desk. The battery is an unnecessary hazard. Having to open the screen to power on the device is inconvenient

I think there are lots of reasons to prefer a minipc to laptop. Personally if I need a computer on the go, I use my phone. Much lighter and smaller.

Re: Intel exiting the PC business as it stops investment in the Intel NUC

#208

Post by ansible »

justsomehnguy wrote: post #171
pavlov wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just from anecdotal observation, the iMac seems to have several niches where a fashionable desktop is called for: at least higher-end shops and lobbies, and musicians and other artists who dabble in production enough to need the larger screen but not enough to invest in a more expensive setup. The Mini seems more specialized. I’ve bought many of them over the years for things like video installations, but I never see…

> “regular people use”. For quite some years I just said "buy a notebook and (if you really need it) monitor with keyboard/ mouse". With an SSD and a decent amount of RAM any notebook is fine for 95% of what people want from the home computer, with a small exception of gaming with a better settings than low/middle. At this point nor Mini, nor any other SFF 'desktop' doesn't make sense, because you can't take it with…

Some people like a clean desk. With this form factor, you can use the VESA mount to stick it behind your monitor.

Re: Intel exiting the PC business as it stops investment in the Intel NUC

#209

Post by eklitzke »

gorkish wrote: post #24

Of all the NUCs they ever made; there is one singular model with 10G ethernet. And yeah good luck getting it. The lack of any significant IO to the outside world crippled these things massively. I tried to order 3 NUCs once; after waiting 6 months for stock, I gave up. Seems nothing will actually be lost. Anybody make ANYTHING that is nuc-like and has 10G+? HP Elitedesk 800 mini has a flexio option for a single 10g p…

Seems reasonable considering that the cheapest 10G switches cost about as much as a NUC.

Re: Intel exiting the PC business as it stops investment in the Intel NUC

#210

Post by DaiPlusPlus »

scarface_74 wrote: post #186
rcme wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn’t this basically the innovator’s dilemma? You can call it focusing the core business, but you can also call it dropping investment in long term cash flows.

The NUC was never going to be a mass market product. Sure Apple sells the Mac Mini. But the entire Mac line is only 10% of Apple’s revenue and most of that is laptops. But Apple has to support its ecosystem as its only supplier. Intel doesn’t And besides, a NUC based on x86 chips is by definition going to suck at either performance or heat.

> Sure Apple sells the Mac Mini. But the entire Mac line is only 10% of Apple’s revenue and most of that is laptops

The 10% figure is spot-on and that really threw me - I was expecting something like 25-30%: https://www.apple.com/newsroom/pdfs/FY22_Q4_Consolidated_Fin...

It’s unnerving that Apple is effectively dependent on a single product line to subsidise everything: Apple Silicon must have cost tens (hundreds?) of billions of dollars to get to where the M2 chip is today (including acquisitions) - but it only exists today all because of the A-series SoC in the iPhone: without the iPhone Apple would likely be still dependent on Intel for Mac chips.

The iPhone isn’t going away any time soon - but when/if that day comes, Apple is going to be faced with having to maintain all those iPhone-originated projects with no easy way to walk them down (e.g. switching from Apple Silicon back to Intel - or stock ARM - is going to damage Apple’s credibility for years). I’m concerned Apple might be painting themselves into a corner by continuing to shed businesses it isn’t interested in that might be a useful lifeline in a post-iPhone world, like their XServe hardware - or even their MacPro workstations: Apple has seemingly intentionally priced themselves out of reach of smaller and indie creative-types - while at the high-end (movies, etc) the great migration from FCP-on-Mac to Avid-on-Windows took place almost a decade ago - and the lack of PCI-Ex GPUs in the 2023 M2 MacPro is further evidence, to me at-least, that Apple is increasingly uninterested in the Workstation market - which leaves them with less access to trend-setting professionals - which erodes their ability to compete, long-term, imo.

Intel killing-off the NUC is unfortunate, but ultimately is not Intel’s core business (chipmaking) which remains their priority. I don’t blame Intel for doing that; but it would be the same thing if Apple killed-off their Mac Studio line (they even look-alike): it isn’t their (current) core-business - but as Apple sheds - or neglects - its old core-businesses (i.e. computers) it leaves them with fewer contingency options.

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