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Framework Laptop 16 Deep Dive – Enclosure

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Re: Framework Laptop 16 Deep Dive – Enclosure

#201

Post by Paul_S »

danpalmer wrote: post #199
Paul_S wrote: post #198

No ARM option? Also, the battery compartment is tiny. Put the two together and I'm guessing this is not going to run for long. Love the idea though. If I ever buy a laptop again it will be one of those.

I don't think the hardware or software are mainstream enough to make it work yet sadly. There are ARM CPUs available, but they are mostly for servers or very low end devices, there's not a lot in the pro laptop market, and even if a low-end server chip could be repurposed, I don't know if the brand recognition would work, customers know AMD and Intel and what they're getting in terms of performance at different specs…

I didn't realise this was marketed to general public. Every distro and their dog supports arm.

Anyway, I thought Windows runs on arm now? Although honestly, nowadays general public runs everything in a browser - why do they still need Windows?

Re: Framework Laptop 16 Deep Dive – Enclosure

#202

Post by cassepipe »

redroyal wrote: post #135
DreamFlasher wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fullack. Returned my framework laptop because of 3 hours battery life (streaming Netflix, measured multiple times), the 747 sound (customer support told me "works as expected"), and if I want to fry eggs I have other devices for that. I'd say "there's room for improvement".

I’m not a fan. Thinkpads have had magnesium enclosures since 2000. I don’t like the framework design or philosophy. You’d have to be insane to buy an Intel laptop for the same money as an ARM Macbook. This reusable thing doesn’t make a bit of sense to me either. Do you really want to be using a 10 year old chassis with new parts? What’s the point of trying to save the environment when the other 8 billion could care l…

Because my two previous laptops were still working fine when their plastic body started to crack and it was heartbreaking to have to toss them away. I managed to changed the plastic body of the second one but the the keyboard broke, then the battery, then the HDD. Now the motherboard has died on me. It was all for nothing. It was a pain to dissassemble each time, fearing to lose screws and to break the old plastics.

I don't know about the rest of the world but for people like me who care about their stuff to be sturdy/long-lasting/repairable, who feel responsible of what they buy and to stop littering the world with trash, I don't how Framework could have done better. I have the second generation, I don't care about you price for specs. It does make noise when compiling but hey at least I get the performance, the rest of the time with my terminal editor, dev server, and many tabs browser ? Not especially noisy and it is never slow.

It's all I wanted and I got it. Plus I can dream of replacing the motherboard in 10 years with a super low consumption cpu, if all my money isn't going to buying food made very expensive by climate change that is.

Re: Framework Laptop 16 Deep Dive – Enclosure

#203

Post by danpalmer »

Paul_S wrote: post #201
danpalmer wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think the hardware or software are mainstream enough to make it work yet sadly. There are ARM CPUs available, but they are mostly for servers or very low end devices, there's not a lot in the pro laptop market, and even if a low-end server chip could be repurposed, I don't know if the brand recognition would work, customers know AMD and Intel and what they're getting in terms of performance at different specs…

I didn't realise this was marketed to general public. Every distro and their dog supports arm. Anyway, I thought Windows runs on arm now? Although honestly, nowadays general public runs everything in a browser - why do they still need Windows?

This laptop is targeting the "pro-sumer" market. Framework aren't targeting the $500 price point, but they're definitely aiming to be mass market not require a computer science degree to use one.

Distro support for ARM is good, but the state of packaging software on Linux isn't wonderful, it's certainly not something the average computer user could manage (hence why Linux for desktop/laptop use isn't popular outside of software engineering). ARM adds one more layer of complexity, and given that this is already difficult, that rules out more of the market.

I gather Windows on ARM support is poor. The OS technically works, but a lot of software doesn't, and most software must run in emulation, which isn't great. MS announced more tooling for this at BUILD in March, but we're ~5 years in? and this is still going (macOS effectively fully transitioned in ~18 months). I think it's got a way to go before there aren't any obvious trade-offs for users.

You're right most users probably don't need Windows, and something like a Chromebook would be more appropriate, and there are ARM Chromebooks. That's not the market for these laptops though, and the CPUs are much too low end for these machines.

Re: Framework Laptop 16 Deep Dive – Enclosure

#204

Post by Rediscover »

seanhunter wrote: post #179
111111IIIIIII wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the pic, the ortholinear keyboard is not the full width of the 16", so it wouldn't be anymore split than your tiny planck. A full-width ortholinear with excessive keys would be another story.

Mine is split in the sense of having the main keys in the middle of the keyboard on your strong fingers (like the old typematrix which was the first ortholinear keyboard I ever used) it’s not in separate modules like a kinesis or ergodox obviously. I don’t know if that would work on a laptop without it being excessively wide. For my personal mix of tendon and joint problems actual separation isn’t helpful because som…

https://assets.chaos.social/media_attachments/files/110/484/...

Nice laptop keyboard.

Re: Framework Laptop 16 Deep Dive – Enclosure

#205

Post by Aerbil313 »

lockhouse wrote: post #116
111111IIIIIII wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why own a macbook when you could just have a non-Mac desktop instead?

Maybe they prefer macOS or need it for iOS development. Also, there really isn't anything out there like a MacBook Air. Thin, light, fast, fanless (silent), and truly all day battery life.

Damn Apple. Macs have no single drawback except repairability, not even vendor lock-in (you can flash Asahi). That’s it. I’m going for a Mac except the Framework I previously planned for. Single digit battery life shouldn’t be thing in 2023.

Re: Framework Laptop 16 Deep Dive – Enclosure

#206

Post by Rediscover »

WWLink wrote: post #67
dheera wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you buy all components from Frame.work, yes. Nobody else to my knowledge is making compatible components for their laptops though, so we're still a ways away from having an ecosystem of options like desktop PCs have. If you're not an EE, the only things you can buy 3rd party are RAM, SSD, and Wi-Fi modules. Which you can do the same for Thinkpads. That said -- I do appreciate that partial upgrades are possible wit…

To date, framework's laptops are the only ones I've ever seen that were designed with replacing the motherboard as a possible upgrade path. There are a few Thinkpad series out there that by happy coincidence, you can swap parts and upgrade screens or maybe change to a newer generation's motherboard.. but generally that's more of a coincidence and not an intent. I'm glad framework is trying this out. I'm not surprised…

https://mntre.com/

MNT Reform.

Replaceable CPUs...

Re: Framework Laptop 16 Deep Dive – Enclosure

#208

Post by atchoo »

strangescript wrote: post #7
cowpig wrote: post #3

I find the battery life on my framework 13 really bad (ubuntu installed). There's some issue where the battery drains fairly quickly in suspend which requires enabling "deep sleep" mode, but it still drains a lot faster than other laptops I've had. And then the battery life in general isn't very good; I'd say ~2 hours at full brightness with some video streaming mixed in with normal browsing. I wonder if that's the s…

I find battery life with linux in general pretty poor. It also struggles achieve any kind of reasonable hibernate/suspend. I can throw my macbook into a bag and pull out a week later with just a small battery draw down. I have never had a linux laptop that would not be completely dead in that scenario.

> I can throw my macbook into a bag and pull out a week later with just a small battery draw down

Hmm, I can't with a Macbook Air M1. I lose maybe up to 10% a day.

When suspended, I see it appearing on the network a few times each hour. I can leave a process running in the background and see that it's getting a few seconds of cpu time each time this "suspended" mac wakes up to do whatever it is doing. There are no settings I can see for a deeper sleep and to stop it doing whatever it is doing. I think they check for updates and such.

Re: Framework Laptop 16 Deep Dive – Enclosure

#209

Post by bronson »

marssaxman wrote: post #138
accrual wrote: post #29

I thought this line was interesting: > with no externally visible fasteners I wonder if it was easier or thinner to do that way, or if it was a deliberate design choice for a more minimal appearance. Personally I don't mind seeing fasteners. After swapping LCDs on my old Thinkpads a couple times, I stopped replacing the screw covers and embraced one fewer step for future maintenance.

Visible fasteners are actually a plus for me - they are a signal that the device has a sane, maintainable design!

My Macbook has visible fasteners and it doesn’t have a sane, maintainable design.

Re: Framework Laptop 16 Deep Dive – Enclosure

#210

Post by 111111IIIIIII »

scarface_74 wrote: post #176
111111IIIIIII wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Because a desktop isn’t portable It almost sounfs like you knew the answer to your question the entire time.

But once you’re asking about an external GPU, portability isn’t the most important thing is it?

I'm not sure what you're talking about. My external GPU enclosure is extremely portable. My everyday backpack fits a laptop with external GPU and a weekend's worth of luggage very comfortably.
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