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US urged to reveal UFO evidence after claim that it has intact alien vehicles

theguardian.com

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Re: US urged to reveal UFO evidence after claim that it has intact alien vehicles

#201

Post by boringuser2 »

Beldin wrote: post #194
boringuser2 wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm willing to put aside literally every mechanical interpretation of probability here, ignoring really poignant questions, in favor of one overarching question: Do you really, really think a species capable of interstellar travel would have vehicles or crafts that we could recognize as such? That feels more like a technology 100-200 years ahead of us, akin to science fiction, than the reality of a species hundreds o…

While I completely agree with you on interstellar travel, I'd like to add the nuance that you seem to assume that there is no life in the Solar system other than on Earth. That could very well be true... but we're not even confident ruling out life on Mars completely, and we landed there and took soil samples and explored. Honestly, if there are extraterrestrials on Earth, I'd wager my hat that they're from somewhere…

No, that can't be it.

No local drones or Dyson spheres, but we're cohabitating with a species capable of intra-solar travel?

Seems highly suspect. They'd need to be at roughly our level of technological development, which, if true, would be more likely to believe in a concept of "God" engineering that outcome than any kind of organic alien life.

Re: US urged to reveal UFO evidence after claim that it has intact alien vehicles

#202

Post by zoogeny »

fnordsensei wrote: post #189
zoogeny wrote: post #166

I saw an interview with this guy just yesterday. He didn't see anything himself. His claim is that some people, and he believes them to be trustworthy, confided in him and showed him some documents. So, at best his testimony is hearsay. All of this stuff reeks of some kind of psyop. My belief is that for some reason, the US government used psychology tests to identify a select few people who naturally "want to believ…

To what end?

I have no idea on the specifics for this particular operation, but in the general case [1]

    The purpose of United States psychological operations is to induce or reinforce behavior perceived to be favorable to U.S. objectives.
In the context of UFOs, UAPs or whatever ... some possibilities are to hide advanced defense programs or to confuse potential enemy intelligence efforts. In fact, for an operation like this I would guess there are probably a dozen strategic objectives and not just one.

1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychological_operations_(Unit...

Re: US urged to reveal UFO evidence after claim that it has intact alien vehicles

#203

Post by spywaregorilla »

jredwards wrote: post #84
tmn wrote: post #15

I find this subject fascinating. As the article states, Navy pilots are on record as eye witnesses for this stuff, along with the various radar feeds, etc. I'm curious what HN thinks of the following: There are 3 comprehensive possibilities (correct me if you think differently): 1. These crafts are ET origin 2. These crafts are human origin (secrete military tech or similar) 3. This is a psyop Due to the supposed fee…

This reminds me of the "Liar, Lunatic, or Lord" argument that religious people use regarding Jesus. Let's not railroad the options, here. There's room for nuance (like combinations or, frankly, just misunderstandings).

what kind of nuanced compromise exists that does not paint jesus as a liar, lunatic, or lord exclusively?

Re: US urged to reveal UFO evidence after claim that it has intact alien vehicles

#204

Post by arcticbull »

Dalewyn wrote: post #196
arcticbull wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> US is the only one winning Civilization Earth. Depends what you mean by winning. Other countries have different priorities, for instance the health and welfare of the population over individual wealth. That doesn't make one right or wrong, but it really this reflects on your priorities more than anything else. And that's ok! I'm just saying it's subjective, not objective, and there's no reason to believe that some…

The US is winning (or has won and keeps on winning) the Conquer Victory, the Diplomacy Victory, and the Culture Victory. I think that's the main means of winning Civilization? Been years since I played one.

Last time I got nuked by Ghandi so it's hard to say.

Re: US urged to reveal UFO evidence after claim that it has intact alien vehicles

#206

Post by detrites »

wizofaus wrote: post #55
petilon wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

4. Time-traveling humans from the future. Don't discount that possibility!

I do. If it were possible we'd surely see them everywhere. Even if time travel was a one-way trip there's enough future billions of us that there'd be massive numbers with the sort of incurable fascination seth the past that they'd be motivated to travel back and see what it was like. Doesn't really seem any more or less likely than alien intelligence at any rate.

Maybe every instance of time travel the universe splits in two, to prevent all the causal loop paradoxes etc?

Ie, time is always a tree branching, and traveling back in time doesn't change that?

Re: US urged to reveal UFO evidence after claim that it has intact alien vehicles

#207

Post by thatjoeoverthr »

boringuser2 wrote: post #156
bsaul wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think a modern jet is similar enough to a bird that animals created millions of years ago (prehistoric birds) can have some basic understanding on how it behaves. What makes you think just because it’s millions of years more evolved we wouldn’t be able to get the general gist of what it does ? (not how it does it, of course)

Apologies: This comment is a terrible analogy. Try explaining quantum physics to Aristotle. That's a mere 2-3000 years of technology with large periods of stagnation. Give Churhill/Stalin/Hitler an iPhone. They now have access to a device of unparalleled ability compared to anything they could have conceived of, and they will simply be completely incapable of understanding or utilizing it outside of performing basic…

I'd be happy to explain any of this to Aristotle. "It's a picture that draws its itself. Here, touch it." We do this every day with children. Ten thousand years o development and you're caught up in five. It's fine!

Re: US urged to reveal UFO evidence after claim that it has intact alien vehicles

#208

Post by bragr »

zoogeny wrote: post #166

I saw an interview with this guy just yesterday. He didn't see anything himself. His claim is that some people, and he believes them to be trustworthy, confided in him and showed him some documents. So, at best his testimony is hearsay. All of this stuff reeks of some kind of psyop. My belief is that for some reason, the US government used psychology tests to identify a select few people who naturally "want to believ…

Why does it have to be a conspiracy? Some small but significant portion of the population is mentally ill, and it seems likely a few would hear a joke ("we keep the alien space ships through that door, I'd show you but I'd have to kill you"), take it way too literally, and it becomes the focus of their mental illness. That seems not only possible but probable given the size the military industrial complex.

Re: US urged to reveal UFO evidence after claim that it has intact alien vehicles

#209

Post by quickthrowman »

zoogeny wrote: post #166

I saw an interview with this guy just yesterday. He didn't see anything himself. His claim is that some people, and he believes them to be trustworthy, confided in him and showed him some documents. So, at best his testimony is hearsay. All of this stuff reeks of some kind of psyop. My belief is that for some reason, the US government used psychology tests to identify a select few people who naturally "want to believ…

> All of this stuff reeks of some kind pf psyop.

In this case, I agree. I usually try to avoid conspiratorial thinking and conspiracy theories, but the DoD and related agencies have been putting out all kinds of information about UFOs in the past few years. My question is: why? The DoD isn’t known for their public relations.

My best speculative guess is that they’re claiming they’ve found alien craft and exotic alien materials because the US is testing aircraft that appear alien with exotic materials and don’t want other nation states to assume it is even terrestrial so they don’t attempt to replicate the technology.

There must be a reason behind the UFO media blitz that has happened lately, it’s not like they’re releasing the info to keep the public informed. Anyone have other ideas? It could be grifters looking to sell a story, mentally ill people misunderstanding jokes or inventing things out of whole cloth, etc.

P.S. I believe intelligent life may exist elsewhere in the universe, but that we’ve never been visited and will never be visited due to the distances involved.

Re: US urged to reveal UFO evidence after claim that it has intact alien vehicles

#210

Post by boringuser2 »

andrewflnr wrote: post #185
boringuser2 wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm willing to put aside literally every mechanical interpretation of probability here, ignoring really poignant questions, in favor of one overarching question: Do you really, really think a species capable of interstellar travel would have vehicles or crafts that we could recognize as such? That feels more like a technology 100-200 years ahead of us, akin to science fiction, than the reality of a species hundreds o…

> Do you really, really think a species capable of interstellar travel would have vehicles or crafts that we could recognize as such? Yes. That is, they almost certainly use objects made out of actual atoms to travel it or whatever the hell. There are almost no hints, with the possible exception of dark matter, in even the most speculative of well -grounded physics, of anything else they could be using. So that's the…

Quick question for you.

Have you heard of a really smart guy named "Isaac Newton"?

Well, his ideas are only ~300 solar years established and observations in quantum mechanics have opened a realm of complete impossibility to a Newtonian worldview.

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