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What If Friendship, Not Marriage, Was at the Center of Life?

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Re: What If Friendship, Not Marriage, Was at the Center of Life?

#201

Post by CalRobert »

maxdoop wrote: post #102
jvm___ wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That doesn't always happen though. I feel the most lonely when I'm alone with my wife. We can only have a back and forth conversation on topics that interest her, or the day to day of the house/kids, anything outside those things is just never discussed or is a one-way conversation that just dies. I was friendless and grew up with the same 15 boys until the end of highschool, never fit in. Married the first girl who…

Dude, this isn't "normal". "I'm most lonely when I'm alone with my wife" -- that is not healthy or good. I don't think your situation is applicable to the OP. As a counter, I feel most comfortable when I am alone with my wife. She is my best friend.

Congrats.

Re: What If Friendship, Not Marriage, Was at the Center of Life?

#202

Post by throwaway834290 »

lm28469 wrote: post #124
jvm___ wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That doesn't always happen though. I feel the most lonely when I'm alone with my wife. We can only have a back and forth conversation on topics that interest her, or the day to day of the house/kids, anything outside those things is just never discussed or is a one-way conversation that just dies. I was friendless and grew up with the same 15 boys until the end of highschool, never fit in. Married the first girl who…

Yeah but then again why would your marry and commit to a "2/10 friend" who doesn't share anything with you ? I know a couple who have been together for close to 20 years, they love being together, talking together, going out together, &c. and they're just thinking about getting married now, and they're only doing it to simplify some paperwork for something unrelated Marriage isn't a checkbox, it's an option if you fi…

In most cases it doesn't start out that way. Either the relationship feels stronger than it really is because you haven't had many relationships in the past, or the relationship drifts apart over time as people grow, or some of both.

In my case I thought we had a lot of shared interests, but after a few years into the marriage my wife had decided that she really liked the idea of those things more than the reality, or that it was just a (nearly decade long) phase she was going through. We still get along well enough personality wise, but we can't find anything for us to do together. Our relationship feels more like good roommates than a marriage.

At the same time I can't really think of any good reason why we should end it. We don't fight hardly at all. Neither of us want kids, so that isn't an issue. AFIAK, I'm not craving another romantic relationship. If we were roommates, I wouldn't want to kick her out. So we just continue on with her being one friend among many.

Re: What If Friendship, Not Marriage, Was at the Center of Life?

#203

Post by nineplay »

pierat wrote: post #190
nineplay wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think there has been a terrible loss that is rarely acknowledged in that men in the western world can no longer have intimate friendships without having to defend their sexual orientation. Seinfeld's "Not that there's anything wrong with that" became a catchphrase for a reason but the line of thinking still exists. I watched the "Tollywood" film RRR and it was startling and refreshing how much affection the two mai…

When I was working at Starbucks ages ago, my best friend would come on by regularly. We're both tall men. Coworkers thought I was gay, and had a sexual relationship with him, because it was and still is a strong bond. In actuality, Im bisexual, and we weren't in a sexual relationship. But men aren't "allowed" to have close bonds with other men. There are exceptions: military, police, mens social clubs (masons, shrine…

Disclaimer: I do not live in a red state or a red city. My impression is that in red states or red cities you would not have had a the same level of acceptance.

Maybe I read too much sensational media, but the situation seems to be getting worse and worse for men who don't care what society thinks.

Re: What If Friendship, Not Marriage, Was at the Center of Life?

#204

Post by thomastjeffery »

vorpalhex wrote: post #176
thomastjeffery wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've said it before and I'll say it again: There is more than one kind of relationship! It's exhausting to constantly hear about romantic commitment as if it's the barometer for all relationships . That's absurd! Did it truly never cross your mind that a person can have more than one meaningful relationship in their lives? No wonder people are so lonely! You don't need one or the other: you can participate in a close…

Sure, you can have a bunch of friends and sex partners. Those can never fulfill what a life partner is. Friends are great. Casual sex can be great. Neither of those give you someone who is so close to you they become part of your identity. Casual sex especially can be deceiving if one person is using that as a vehicle for emotional investment and the other isn't. That's how people get deeply hurt. Relationships end.…

You are assuming that my social experiences are shallow. They are not.

You know that sex is not exclusive to intimacy. Do you know that intimacy is not exclusive to sex?

I have found the right person many times. I don't stop when I find them. That's like putting all of your investment into one stock.

Maybe you did win the lottery. That's great! Should I be expecting the same experience? I don't.

> Casual sex especially can be deceiving if one person is using that as a vehicle for emotional investment and the other isn't. That's how people get deeply hurt.

That's what a lot of marriages are. The only resolution to this situation is communication.

Why is that communication difficult? We have a strong social expectation for exclusive romantic commitment. To pursue non-committed romance is to break that social expectation. It's difficult, but not impossible.

We would all be better off without that expectation. If people felt free to pursue casual relationships, they would be more likely to self-select away from the dating pool of serious-commitment seekers.

Instead, we have people being dishonest and subversive about their relationship goals, because they feel it is the only way to fulfill their need for sex and intimacy. They end up in a relationship with someone who depends on their commitment, but that very commitment is a lie: a lie told to the other person, and often even to themselves.

Re: What If Friendship, Not Marriage, Was at the Center of Life?

#205

Post by nemo44x »

phd514 wrote: post #133
nemo44x wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Catholics don't really take the bible as literal as many protestant religions do. Some fundamentalist Catholics do but the Catholic Church (capital 'C') does not and has not for a very long time. Pope Benedict XVI in 1993 when he was a Cardinal: “Fundamentalist interpretation starts from the principle that the Bible, being the word of God, inspired and free from error, should be read and interpreted literally in all…

Unfortunately, Benedict is conflating fundamentalism with literalism here. It's a common mistake (and "fundamentalist" has become essentially an epithet) although one that I am surprised to hear from someone as otherwise erudite and thoughtful as Benedict. Theological fundamentalism came out of the fundamentalist-modernist controversy of the early 1900s ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fundamentalist%E2%80%93moderni..…

That's very interesting, thank you for the color there. Especially clarifying the literalist and fundamentalist part. I'd always just sort of assumed that they are one and the same.

I'm not particularly religious but over time I've come to respect the erudite and philosophical side of it. It's so easy to just dismiss the entire thing when looking at the worst of it which IMO tends towards protestant church's that are more a political organization than a spirituality center. Or of course the scandalous and criminal history of the Catholic church covering up so many bad things.

Re: What If Friendship, Not Marriage, Was at the Center of Life?

#206

Post by __MatrixMan__ »

dash2 wrote: post #23

As advanced countries' systems for marriage and child-rearing continue to fail, there is a constant demand for cope. What if we learned to love being single? What if we substitute friendship for marriage? 64 ways to enjoy retirement on your own! This is the collective version of listening to an alcoholic explain why he doesn't have a problem.

Most of our problems are too-many-people problems. So I think your metaphor is upside down. It's the sober guy trying to convince the alcoholics that partying sober is actually fine.

Re: What If Friendship, Not Marriage, Was at the Center of Life?

#207

Post by RandallBrown »

qwerty456127 wrote: post #25
delfinom wrote: post #2

Do I come from an alien universe where people in committed relationships still have friends?

How do you have time for friends besides your spouse after you do jour job, chores, fitness, sleping, education, side projects and random tasks which emerge every now and then? I do have some great friends but only meet them a couple of times a week even though they live very close to me.

Seeing your friends a couple of times a week is more than what I think most people do.

I feel like I have an abnormally large group of close friends and I basically only see them on weekends.

Re: What If Friendship, Not Marriage, Was at the Center of Life?

#208

Post by cowuser666 »

015a wrote: post #191
dash2 wrote: post #23

As advanced countries' systems for marriage and child-rearing continue to fail, there is a constant demand for cope. What if we learned to love being single? What if we substitute friendship for marriage? 64 ways to enjoy retirement on your own! This is the collective version of listening to an alcoholic explain why he doesn't have a problem.

Is it the collective version of listening to an alcoholic explain why he doesn't have a problem, or the version of an air-breather explaining why breathing air isn't a problem? Humans are social creatures. Meaningful interaction is literally as important as eating, drinking water, and breathing. We don't say we're addicted to those things; those things are just necessary for life (well, I suppose with eating there's…

Biological necessities for life != institutions that a majority of people participate in within most historical/cultural contexts.

There have always been adults who never paired off into romantic partnerships. Not so with breathing.

Re: What If Friendship, Not Marriage, Was at the Center of Life?

#209

Post by AnimalMuppet »

mydriasis wrote: post #28

I don't like anyone as much as I like my wife, straight up. It's incredible to have a partner that acts as my actual 'other half'. We are two sides of the same coin. It's an amazing thing. I can't, nor do I want to, get that close to other people.

You don't necessarily have to get that close to other people. But your wife probably shouldn't be your only friend, either - or you hers. You can squeeze the life out of a relationship trying to make it the one and only thing in your life. People can't be that to other people.

Instead, have your wife be your best friend. That's wonderful! But also have other friends. Keep making new ones as old ones drift away. And keep the friendship with your wife alive.

Re: What If Friendship, Not Marriage, Was at the Center of Life?

#210

Post by volkl48 »

fknorangesite wrote: post #101
dash2 wrote: post #23

As advanced countries' systems for marriage and child-rearing continue to fail, there is a constant demand for cope. What if we learned to love being single? What if we substitute friendship for marriage? 64 ways to enjoy retirement on your own! This is the collective version of listening to an alcoholic explain why he doesn't have a problem.

> As advanced countries' systems for marriage and child-rearing continue to fail US divorce rates are at a 50-year low.

Marriage rates are also there, so that statistic is not really that surprising.

Most of the people who would have been getting divorced in the 1970s, today look like a relationship that fails after a few months or years, before reaching the point where they would have decided to get married.

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