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TikTok is now banned in Montana

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Re: TikTok is now banned in Montana

#201

Post by bioemerl »

TrueGeek wrote: post #191
woooooo wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder how many Chinese-manufactured goods the state of Montana bought yesterday while issuing this statement.

"the People's Republic of China is an adversary of the United States" - sent from my iPhone

They threaten regularly to go to war with us over Taiwan. People before WW1 thought war was impossible thanks to how the economy was so interconnected.

Russia invaded Ukraine despite how tied they were to Europe economically.

To suggest China can't be an adversary just because we trade is a blunder made many times in history, and it fails, time and time again. Don't fall for it.

Re: TikTok is now banned in Montana

#202

Post by JohnFen »

AlexCoventry wrote: post #185
JohnFen wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That such bans don't include domestic companies spying on people and providing that data to domestic entities says everything about how bankrupt this whole thing is.

That the US is illegally spying on its own citizens is bad, but not as bad as allowing an explicitly hostile, autocratic foreign power to turn a massive propaganda and surveillance platform on US citizens. The US has many problems, but I'd still rather live in its admittedly somewhat rough approximation to transparent liberal democracy than under a completely and explicitly unaccountable regime like the Chinese Commu…

> the US is illegally spying on its own citizens is bad, but not as bad as

I disagree. I think they're both roughly equally as bad.

> I'd still rather live in its admittedly somewhat rough approximation to transparent liberal democracy

Me too! I'm not sure what the relevance of that is, though.

Re: TikTok is now banned in Montana

#203

Post by _blz2 »

CamperBob2 wrote: post #180
lykahb wrote: post #172

I hope that this shifts the Overton window toward discussion about banning facebook, twitter and instagram. They play a major role in exacerbating the divisions in the society and the rising suicide rate. Those domestic platforms do a better job at undermining the national security than any foreign force could dream of.

How do you reconcile this position with the First Amendment?

A platform that allows unhinged free speech would be more in line, but tech players wouldn't pursue it citing hate speech/advertisements and would outright ban it.

Re: TikTok is now banned in Montana

#204

Post by px43 »

woooooo wrote: post #121
viraptor wrote: post #113

Slightly off topic - I'm not sure I've heard the gov stating it plainly in the recent years: "the People's Republic of China is an adversary of the United States" (from the bill). Did I just miss it / glance over, or is this out of character for officially released gov documents?

I wonder how many Chinese-manufactured goods the state of Montana bought yesterday while issuing this statement.

I'd love to see what would happen if Walmart got banned in the same way.

Re: TikTok is now banned in Montana

#205

Post by mmh0000 »

mikece wrote: post #105

Tomorrow's story: "Residents of Montana discover VPNs and how to use them!" Between Utah and Montana the awareness and use of VPNs is rising among the non-security-conscious, and this is a good thing.

So, I avoided VPNs for years because they had no practical benefit. I live in Utah, and I would consider myself very technically adept. Previously, I didn't like "VPNs" because now I'm just routing all my traffic through another untrusted 3rd party. It's like choosing between two evils, would I prefer my ISP knows where I go, or some rando that I also have to pay? Worse, the "rando" (usually) requires a VPN app which could get up to all sorts of fuckery. So. yada yada yada.

Well, then, two things happened back-to-back. The VPN provider Mullvad was unsuccessfully raided, and Utah passed hyper-totalitarian laws. On the recent PR news, I investigated Mullval, and... they're fantastic. You don't have to use their app; they support straight openvpn or wireguard and are Linux native. AND I can pay them in BTC, further obscuring myself.

Because of Utah's law, the vast majority of my traffic is now directed over a VPN. I don't even really go to porn sites all that often. It's more the principle of it.

The more the state pushes to limit and remove freedoms, the more I will do everything in my power to push the other way. It's the Hacker Mindset =D

Re: TikTok is now banned in Montana

#206

Post by 99_00 »

micromacrofoot wrote: post #146
99_00 wrote: post #141

It's interesting that some oppose Musk running Twitter, it's moderation, policies, and alorithms because of his sympathies for a mainstream American political party. And at the same time carry water for TickTock who is legally obligated to cooperate with China's intelligence service in any way they require. Knowing that the Chinese regime runs genocidal slave labour rape camps and will extract and sell your organs fo…

Seems like a little bit of a strawman, they're all bad.

Maybe i am misunderstanding. Are you saying that a CCP controlled social media company is as bad to America as an Elon Musk controlled social media company?

Re: TikTok is now banned in Montana

#207

Post by px43 »

bioemerl wrote: post #201
TrueGeek wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"the People's Republic of China is an adversary of the United States" - sent from my iPhone

They threaten regularly to go to war with us over Taiwan. People before WW1 thought war was impossible thanks to how the economy was so interconnected. Russia invaded Ukraine despite how tied they were to Europe economically. To suggest China can't be an adversary just because we trade is a blunder made many times in history, and it fails, time and time again. Don't fall for it.

No one is saying that China can't be an adversary. People are saying that maybe US politicians shouldn't be blatantly labeling them as an adversary just to score some sinophobic rageporn points with Fox News viewers.

Re: TikTok is now banned in Montana

#208

Post by karaterobot »

CamperBob2 wrote: post #180
lykahb wrote: post #172

I hope that this shifts the Overton window toward discussion about banning facebook, twitter and instagram. They play a major role in exacerbating the divisions in the society and the rising suicide rate. Those domestic platforms do a better job at undermining the national security than any foreign force could dream of.

How do you reconcile this position with the First Amendment?

There's nothing in the law, as far as I am aware, that requires an otherwise banned enterprise be allowed to operate because it also allows people to speak freely on the premises.

Re: TikTok is now banned in Montana

#209

Post by dkarl »

atdrummond wrote: post #164
dkarl wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mainstream conservatives/Republicans swung hard in the direction of supporting domestic spying and surveillance in the early 2000s and have never swung back. They hate the government but (with some justification) assume that law enforcement is on their side.

Given how much distrust there is of DHS/FBI among Trump supporters/GOP base, I’m not sure this is true; especially with many neocons returning to the Democratic Party they came from originally. Elected GOP officials are a completely different beast from much of their own base.

I'm making a generalization that doesn't include every single element of the right, but these days the rhetoric against federal law enforcement has no chance of getting turned into policy. Distrust of government is an integral part of conservative rhetoric, and incidents like Waco and Ruby Ridge remain a cherished part of their mythology, but there's a big difference between the 1990s, when they were demanding investigations and limitations on the FBI's power to surveil and act against American citizens, and anytime since 9/11, when they have wanted the FBI to have more power to surveil and act against American citizens, even under Democratic administrations.

You wouldn't be able to get Republican support for reducing the power of federal law enforcement even if Joe Biden died and Kamala Harris became president. Maybe their paranoia would get sufficiently revived if they were facing a President-Elect AOC in 2024... but I'd rather not think about how they would behave under those circumstances.

Re: TikTok is now banned in Montana

#210

Post by [deleted] »

lykahb wrote: post #196
CamperBob2 wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you reconcile this position with the First Amendment?

The First Amendment guarantees freedom of expression by prohibiting Congress from restricting the press or the rights of individuals to speak freely. It is open to interpretation, but banning social platforms that do not create their content is not the same as censoring the press. At the time the amendment was conceived, it was unimaginable to have a nation-wide entity that threatens the freedom of expression other t…

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