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Kids who get smartphones earlier become adults with worse mental health

jonathanhaidt.substack.com

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Re: Kids who get smartphones earlier become adults with worse mental health

#201

Post by aierou »

tgv wrote: post #127
tssva wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is even worse because the participants in the survey were not randomly selected. They instead must choose to visit the Sapiens Labs website to complete the survey. Taking the survey is encouraged through advertising. I can't say for certain but I imagine that voluntarily visiting a website to complete a mental health survey might appeal more to those with mental health issues thus skewing the data. Also you may ha…

It's not as if the papers, and the health organizations, haven't been saying this for years now. Demand for mental health care under children and young adults has skyrocketed, and demand far outstrips supply. Is that sufficient?

No, dude. Conclusions cannot be made based on feelings. Where exactly is that step in the scientific method? It certainly doesn't sound like the rigorous skepticism that should be applied to what is observed.

I am appalled at the willingness to make huge logical leaps on the basis of emotions or morality in this thread.

Re: Kids who get smartphones earlier become adults with worse mental health

#202

Post by 23B1 »

hibikir wrote: post #169
trinix912 wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As if it’s impossible for boys to have body image issues because of all those Instagram models.

Oh, boys can absolutely have image problems for looking at instagram models. In general, comparing oneself to the photoshopped version of people that are already in the top percentage in the good looks lottery is bad, regardless of gender. However, statistically speaking, boys just don't follow male instagram models in the first place. Far fewer install instagram in the first place, and if they do, it's not to get fa…

Also I don't think it's 'kosher' amongst the male species to admit and seek mental health assistance either – so THAT correlation could be an important one.

Re: Kids who get smartphones earlier become adults with worse mental health

#203

Post by cassac »

Shared404 wrote: post #162
throwaway3838g wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m not convinced that an enterprising kid couldn’t easily bypass these restrictions

I'm convinced that barring kids who are exclusively homeschooled, every kid has a way to bypass these restrictions either by themselves or with a classmates help. Source: was a kid not that long ago.

That’s true of nearly everything though. That lock on your front door? I can easily bypass it but yet you still have it. Anyone determined enough can do almost anything. But throw a wide enough net and at least you can prevent the casual and lazy offenders. Also I think prevention is an ongoing thing not a one and done thing. You shouldn’t say “oh I put a dns block on YouTube so now I don’t need to follow up on my kids” and I feel a lot of parents do just that.

Re: Kids who get smartphones earlier become adults with worse mental health

#204

Post by jstarfish »

IceHegel wrote: post #31
eurekin wrote: post #16

I wonder, if it's possible to test the hypothesis that smartphone (or whatever internet connected device) allows one to learn more about the world without the filter

I think the huge majority of the risk is that an otherwise curious person destroys themselves in their teenage years, rather than have their curiosity limited.

Boredom leads to curiosity.

Smartphones ensure the user is never bored.

Re: Kids who get smartphones earlier become adults with worse mental health

#205

Post by pb7 »

doublerabbit wrote: post #175
adastra22 wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My kids don’t have phones. They are the only ones among their peers who don’t have a phone. I told them they can get one when they write an app and get it listed on the App Store, not before. Most people I tell this to are impressed. The only time I got crucified was the last time I mentioned it on HN. This seems to be a particular bone to pick that HN users have.

How are they suppose to write an app when they have no phone? And which AppStore? Apple, Google, Sourceforge?

The App Store.

Re: Kids who get smartphones earlier become adults with worse mental health

#206

Post by 23B1 »

Tokkemon wrote: post #190
23B1 wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"I understand you think the water is wet and the sky is blue – but what does wet mean? What does blue mean?" Great questions for interesting philosophical and academic debate. Silly questions for deciding how to, say, raise kids.

Way to totally miss the point.

How so?

Re: Kids who get smartphones earlier become adults with worse mental health

#207

Post by zild3d »

doublerabbit wrote: post #175
adastra22 wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My kids don’t have phones. They are the only ones among their peers who don’t have a phone. I told them they can get one when they write an app and get it listed on the App Store, not before. Most people I tell this to are impressed. The only time I got crucified was the last time I mentioned it on HN. This seems to be a particular bone to pick that HN users have.

How are they suppose to write an app when they have no phone? And which AppStore? Apple, Google, Sourceforge?

> How are they suppose to write an app when they have no phone?

Android and iOS both have emulators. React native/expo can run in browser, etc.

> And which AppStore? Apple, Google, Sourceforge?

Seems like that's missing the point

Re: Kids who get smartphones earlier become adults with worse mental health

#208

Post by judge2020 »

tough wrote: post #197
escapedmoose wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But the form-factor of technology necessarily alters our relationship to it. Compared to a laptop or desktop PC, a smartphone is a constant presence, always in your kid’s pocket or backpack, easily snuck under a desk for a distraction from a boring lecture, easily used by friends or bullies to record you unnoticed. Besides that, parents can learn to restrict their kids’ phones from social media use, but that seems li…

> you could simply give your kid a “dumb phone” for emergency use. I think you got it backwards, the emergency case is just the -excuse- parents use. In reality, it is about social pressure, not emergency use, all the other kids have phones, why can't I? Real phones, with apps and games and shit. FFS most parents will shove up an iDevice to their toddlers so they can play angry birds or whatever instead of caring for…

> FFS most parents will shove up an iDevice to their toddlers so they can play angry birds or whatever instead of caring for them more actively.

This is such a 2010 way of thinking. Now they just hand their kids the YouTube app (signed into their parents' account) and let autoplay babysit their kid for hours a day.

Re: Kids who get smartphones earlier become adults with worse mental health

#209

Post by bhk »

cauch wrote: post #154
lukeasrodgers wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From folks making the correlation vs causation argument here, I would like to hear their rebuttal to the points the author already laid out in this article https://jonathanhaidt.substack.com/p/social-media-mental-ill... , especially the section on quasi experiments. Do we just think that because it is probably impossible to conduct pure double-blind RCTs in human populations, it is therefore impossible to reasonably…

My rebuttal would be: it is not impossible to attribute causality, and THIS IS THE PROBLEM. Right now, there are two identically possible situations (well, even more, but you get the jest): A) smartphone -> depression B) depression -> smartphone But the author does not do a good job in explaining why he choose A instead of B, except "it feels logical to me". It feels like a coin toss. (and sure, the author has some a…

Or also....

C) X -> depression AND X -> smartphone

First example, X could be "strongly needs to feel included"

Re: Kids who get smartphones earlier become adults with worse mental health

#210

Post by trgn »

decremental wrote: post #159
alexb_ wrote: post #45

There is so much instant dismissal of this entire idea that smartphones are harmful in this thread, most of which is just "correlation is not causation". Yes, correlation does not equal causation. But when it makes logical sense why there would be correlation, there is no way to actually measure causation (we can't exactly give kids placebo phones), we keep seeing the same correlation over and over again, why is it b…

It's important to remember that a ton of people on here are victims of the things they defend. It's like Stockholm syndrome. Drugs, hardcore porn, you name it. They grew up with it, they've been conditioned to feel defensive when there is pushback against it, and to come to the conclusion that they themselves are victims would require facing some harsh emotions that many people would rather just not experience.

Today's equivalent of my parents beat me, but I turned out OK!
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