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The EU AI act is coming, this time for real probably

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Re: The EU AI act is coming, this time for real probably

#201

Post by mitchdoogle »

dragonelite wrote: post #98
wokwokwok wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

? Do you think there’s some kind of karmic point scoring system that you win by being the first one to build horrible unethical dystopian AI models? Or are you just complaining you won’t be able to horrifically exploit people using them to make lots of money? …because, sure, red tape is bad, but is it ultimately that terrible not being a allowed to be super villain? “But America has super villains! …! We’re being lef…

Well you need patents and those patents will be created and registered in the US or China this way. Kind of like how EU car manufacturers have been sleeping on the EV movement. Now they have to source their parts from Chinese manufacturers. So wealth is leaking(patent costs etc) out of Europe and the continent will have less wealth in total over time. Especially now that the cheap Russian energy they had access too i…

I don't understand what you're arguing for. You want the EU to throw ethics out the window to encourage business growth?

Re: The EU AI act is coming, this time for real probably

#202

Post by mschuster91 »

letmevoteplease wrote: post #122
mschuster91 wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Laws can be iterated on. For Americans, this concept seems to be almost alien given the (at least from an European POV) more or less constant gridlock between House, Senate, Presidency and whatever the 50 states make out of that regarding enforcement. Or, to put it differently, they prefer the Wild West and barely self-regulated markets because they have completely lost any trust in government to create and moderni…

The design of the American system was always based on a distrust for power. The gridlock is the point. Not my favorite person but Scalia put it well: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ggz_gd--UO0

Eventually though it leads to a situation where no one has any trust left in government, which is extremely dangerous from a democracy perspective - it breeds resentment, splintering/secession and people taking the law into their own hands (or to put it bluntly, shooting at everything they deem a threat - including children playing hide-and-seek [1]).

That's also the reason why there are so many doomsday preppers in the USA vs. everywhere else on the planet that isn't an active warzone. These people simply don't trust the government to keep them alive in a time of crisis.

[1] https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2023/05/09/louisia...

Re: The EU AI act is coming, this time for real probably

#203

Post by simion314 »

hhh wrote: post #24
simion314 wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

AFAIK in USA the AI stuff is still in limbo, Microsoft and Open AI will have to defend themselves in court, the result could be worse then what EU is preparing depending on your alignment. I prefer this shit is clarified so everyone knows what is legal and not, and not have only the big corporations do the illegal stuff and apologize later.

It’s not illegal though. That’s the point, is it not?

It is undecided/unclear what is legal or not, I am not an american so I am not the one that should explain this.

But Microsoft trained their coding AI with GPL software but not with proprietary software impaling that they can risc screwing Open Source but not the paying GitHub customers or not sure why they did not used their own internal proprietary code.

Open AI trained with the entire inernet, books, ignored any license copyright cponcerns. Stability.ai also trained with lot of stuff. Adobe trained only with stuff they have licenses.

So as we can see until an USA judge decides how to interpret the existing laws then stuff are not sure, some companies take the risks other take less risks, others no risk.

But if USA some other judge in a superior court my decide something else, so IMO USA also needs to take a decision and not let FUD (deserved or not) about AI to spread.

I seen many do not know that the issue ChatGPT had in Italy was about a data leak. There are laws on what you do when this happens, probably are similar laws in USA , maybe in USA is harder to start a investigation or maybe there were some lobbying involved.

Re: The EU AI act is coming, this time for real probably

#204

Post by cschmid »

konschubert wrote: post #48
wongarsu wrote: post #31

In general I find the EU AI act quite reasonable. There are a couple AI uses that will be prohibited (most mentioned by the article, mostly manipulating people or dystopian government stuff). But imho the meat of the act is in categorizing many use cases as "High Risk", which comes with a list of requirements. Things like putting some effort in thinking about risks, into your training data, understanding biases, havi…

The effect is going to be that all the innovation happens elsewhere, big AI companies will develop outside Europe. And Europeans will only get to benefit as consumers, not as makers of AI. And the EU will take that as a reason to regulate even harder and then also somehow end up giving a bunch of money to its telcos. EDIT: My point is that regulation doesn’t just prevent “bad products”. The compliance overhead also p…

The only way to avoid falling under the provisions of the act is to not have any customers in the EU -- that's quite a big market to cut yourself out of, and definitely something a big company cannot afford to do.

Re: The EU AI act is coming, this time for real probably

#205

Post by zirgs »

gumballindie wrote: post #50

> While the AI Act’s references to copyright issues in generative AI are still very vague and only stress how much of a grey area it is, requiring providers of large models to be more transparent about their sources seems not a bad thing as such. As many aspects of the act it will be seen how this works out in practice. If my license prohibits use of my work for ai training, or requires that any modified code include…

You can't forbid others from learning from your work. If you want to prevent it then don't post it publicly.

Re: The EU AI act is coming, this time for real probably

#206

Post by zeroonetwothree »

Taywee wrote: post #158
konschubert wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am not calling to abolish all regulation. But please consider this: How many people’s lives could have been saved if FDA regulations didn’t make medical approvals take 10 years? How many life-saving medications could have been invented if the cost of approval didn’t limit innovation to the biggest companies?

It's as unanswerable a question as "how many lives would have been lost by dangerous medications with long-term side effects that didn't become apparent in the term of testing?" We can't really know whether it was a net good or a net bad because we can't take a look at the reality that didn't happen. What we do know is that there were deadly medications on the market before the FDA. There were medications available o…

Actually there is a huge amount of research into this. The wide consensus seems to be that the FDA is far too conservative and overall having more lax approvals would have saved many more lives in net.

Re: The EU AI act is coming, this time for real probably

#207

Post by zeroonetwothree »

hef19898 wrote: post #178
konschubert wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe we would have a cure for most cancer by now. You cannot see the damage done by regulation, but it exists. Regulation is always a trade-off. It’s not “us vs them”. It’s us vs us.

Jesus, no idea what to say here... Just one thing: mRNA vaccines, coming out of cancer treatment research, one of the most sucessful companies is actually German, and they use the mountains of cash they made during Covid, partnering with Pfizer on Covid vaccines, to really push the cancer research. Unregulated medical research is bad, like in really, literall Nazi doctor bad. Shocking it still has to pointed out...

this is a straw man, less regulation does not immediately mean Nazis. I mean come on be reasonable

Re: The EU AI act is coming, this time for real probably

#208

Post by AndrewKemendo »

endisneigh wrote: post #3

The acceleration of the divergence of the EU from the United States with respect to cutting edge software will be a site to behold. One is neutering and the other is cultivating.

One actively encourages corporations to use the population as test subjects for any psychopathic idea that gets enough money backing it

The other is Europe

Re: The EU AI act is coming, this time for real probably

#209

Post by zeroonetwothree »

lm28469 wrote: post #14
endisneigh wrote: post #3

The acceleration of the divergence of the EU from the United States with respect to cutting edge software will be a site to behold. One is neutering and the other is cultivating.

> One is neutering and the other is cultivating Now the question is: what are they neutering/cultivating. It might very well end in a "why did we start putting lead in gas again?" / "we can spray kids with DDT clouds right?" x100 moment

DDT wasn’t banned for harming humans. Actually banning it was probably bad for humans overall because of the rise in malaria (but we opted to make that trade off for environmental reasons). You should probably pick a better example.

Re: The EU AI act is coming, this time for real probably

#210

Post by zeroonetwothree »

AndrewKemendo wrote: post #208
endisneigh wrote: post #3

The acceleration of the divergence of the EU from the United States with respect to cutting edge software will be a site to behold. One is neutering and the other is cultivating.

One actively encourages corporations to use the population as test subjects for any psychopathic idea that gets enough money backing it The other is Europe

How many of those “psychopathic ideas” do Europeans end up benefiting from once they mature?
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