Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Pixel phones are sold with bootloader unlocking disabled

fitzsim.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

201–210 of 359 posts

Re: Pixel phones are sold with bootloader unlocking disabled

#201

Post by judge2020 »

Aeolun wrote: post #198
judge2020 wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A different SKU for enterprise managed devices would cripple IT departments that don't pay the big bucks to e.g. verizon to manage their device provisioning & MDM enrollment.

Wut? I don’t follow? Anyway, once you are big enough to care about preventing bootloader unlocking on your company devices you are big enough to pay for that privilege.

You'd need two different SKUs for each different color and size to enable this in a more user-friendly way, where devices either enterprise locked or carrier locked get the one with a locked-by-default bootloader, and ones bought directly by the consumer have an unlocked bootloader. Realistically the latter group is so small it doesn't make sense to complicate the production and logistics process by having this separation. Instead, we get the current situation where the bootloader can be unlocked after initial setup check.

Re: Pixel phones are sold with bootloader unlocking disabled

#202

Post by _ea1k »

danuker wrote: post #145
RicoElectrico wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The rationale for the hoops and waiting period is IIRC that shady sellers were tampering with phones sold through AliExpress etc.

Security, the classic excuse behind reducing freedom.

Sometimes its a valid reason. I love the idea of being able to unlock the bootloader.

I don't love the idea of someone else being able to do it before the phone gets to me.

Re: Pixel phones are sold with bootloader unlocking disabled

#203

Post by Sunspark »

zeagle wrote: post #178
KennyBlanken wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why on earth would Google institute a policy that runs completely contrary to the cell phone industry's business model, making their devices as useless as possible as fast as possible? It always cracked me up that Apple gets bashed for planned obsolescence when they support their phones longer than anyone else in the industry.

I agree that they aren't exactly good citizens in the corporate sense, I'm all for regulation to step in if companies won't voluntarily do it. To your point Google does unlock their bootloaders so they seem OK with it for their devices? There is some planned obsolescence in incremental improvement of technology but that that is probably too slow for them (e.g. my S10/S11 lacked LTE, 5g, eSim...).

It had LTE. If you were without, it was the carrier.

Re: Pixel phones are sold with bootloader unlocking disabled

#205

Post by bentcorner »

dingledork69 wrote: post #86
pbasista wrote: post #38

> connect the device to the Internet before they are allowed to install the operating system they want Phoning home before undertaking such an activity takes away the ownership rights from the customers. They do not actually own these devices even after they have purchased them. The reason is that an important part of their ownership rights, i.e. the freedom to use the software of their choice, has been withheld from…

So google is going through all this effort and some guy in China will just bypass the bootloader lock for $30. There is absolutely no way that the intelligence agencies don't have this same capability, which makes all of this security posturing utterly pointless, other than to prevent regular users from owning their devices.

> some guy in China will just bypass the bootloader lock for $30.

I've seen this kind of thing before but I have no idea how this works. Is it an insider employee at google or a mobile provider that is doing this on the side? Is it a 0-day exploit? Is it something that anyone can do but someone is productizing it for $30?

Re: Pixel phones are sold with bootloader unlocking disabled

#206

Post by nfriedly »

azalemeth wrote: post #118

If I wanted to buy a new phone that I could root, install a custom ROM on, and use without voiding the warranty, what's the current best bet? One Plus used to be pretty good, but they've gone down in freedoms and up in price. Samsung are an obvious no. The entire design of the iPhone is specifically aimed at keeping the user out of it. Linux phones aren't usable yet. The shop on the /e/ foundation website seems to be…

Motorola has an automated process where you send them the phone serial number or something like that and they'll send you back a code that can be used to unlock the bootloader.

I'm on a Moto g100 that I bought last year, originally intending for it to be a temporary phone while I found a flagship that I actually liked, but it's really grown on me. It has most of the features I was looking for, in particular official LineageOS support, and a microSD slot. I think I might just stick with it.

The other one I had been seriously looking at is Sony's Xperia lineup, but the current and previous generation have had overheating issues. I think their bootloader unlocking process is similar, though.

Re: Pixel phones are sold with bootloader unlocking disabled

#207

Post by zeagle »

Sunspark wrote: post #203
zeagle wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree that they aren't exactly good citizens in the corporate sense, I'm all for regulation to step in if companies won't voluntarily do it. To your point Google does unlock their bootloaders so they seem OK with it for their devices? There is some planned obsolescence in incremental improvement of technology but that that is probably too slow for them (e.g. my S10/S11 lacked LTE, 5g, eSim...).

It had LTE. If you were without, it was the carrier.

Thanks for correcting that. I don't have the phone anymore.

Re: Pixel phones are sold with bootloader unlocking disabled

#208

Post by kristopolous »

pbasista wrote: post #38

> connect the device to the Internet before they are allowed to install the operating system they want Phoning home before undertaking such an activity takes away the ownership rights from the customers. They do not actually own these devices even after they have purchased them. The reason is that an important part of their ownership rights, i.e. the freedom to use the software of their choice, has been withheld from…

It's crazy how much Google has become just another dickish proprietary corporation.

If they could have somehow stayed ~2003 Google...

Re: Pixel phones are sold with bootloader unlocking disabled

#209

Post by nfriedly »

chenxiaolong wrote: post #124

In case anyone is curious which Android components are responsible for this: * There are 3 boolean states: 1. whether the bootloader is unlocked 2. whether the bootloader unlocking ability is enabled by the user ("OEM unlocking" toggle) 3. whether the bootloader unlocking ability is allowed to be enabled (carrier restriction) * The Android Settings app grays out the "OEM unlocking" toggle if `isOemUnlockAllowedByCarr…

> Though there are reports that refurbished devices from warranty claims for bootloader-unlockable devices may sometimes have a carrier restriction that Google's servers don't allow removing.

Yep, this happened with my Pixel 2: Bought it directly from google, the usb-c port stopped working after a while, so I sent it in for a repair. I cannot unlock the bootloader on the phone they sent me back, so it's basically just e-waste now.

Re: Pixel phones are sold with bootloader unlocking disabled

#210

Post by Gigachad »

dingledork69 wrote: post #69
mlyle wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You get to "own your device" after you connect it to the internet once, to make sure it's not pre-provisioned for enterprise use.

So you don't own it when you buy it. At best Google still owns it and they graciously allow you permission to change the bootloader after you submit to their terms of service. Also, better hope their servers are online and reachable, and that you have functional internet.

This is honestly the most overblown issue I've ever seen on HN. How many people are buying a brand new in box pixel to install a custom OS on and do not have an internet connection anywhere, not even a free public wifi? I'd be shocked if this impacts even a single person.

At this point it's being angry for the sake of it.

Post reply on HN