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When “free forever” means “free for the next 4 months”

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Re: When “free forever” means “free for the next 4 months”

#201

Post by AlexandrB »

swyx wrote: post #89
pikdum wrote: post #73

If a company gets rid of my free forever plan with them, there is a 0% chance that they're getting any money or positive word of mouth from me in the future. It's incredibly scummy behavior. If you're not willing to actually offer it forever, just call it a free plan instead of lying about it.

you’ve never made a mistake in your future predictions? youve never committed to something you couldnt deliver? i understand the outrage but remember the people on the other side of that screen are just humans too. many things dont turn out the way the initial intention was (im not excusing this specific instance, im just hoping for less vitriol when i someday make some over promising mistake in future). let he who i…

It's simpler than that. It's just fraud. Don't promise something you're not sure you can deliver.

If we don't call this fraud what stops bad actors from just lying to you to get you to buy in?

Re: When “free forever” means “free for the next 4 months”

#202

Post by vel0city »

differentView wrote: post #155
vel0city wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In many jurisdictions contracts can't actually be "forever" though. They need to have some kind of possible end state.

So you're saying I may be able to get out of this contract I have with my wife.

No, it has a defined end state, when someone dies. It's not a forever contract.

Re: When “free forever” means “free for the next 4 months”

#204

Post by scns »

AlexandrB wrote: post #201
swyx wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

you’ve never made a mistake in your future predictions? youve never committed to something you couldnt deliver? i understand the outrage but remember the people on the other side of that screen are just humans too. many things dont turn out the way the initial intention was (im not excusing this specific instance, im just hoping for less vitriol when i someday make some over promising mistake in future). let he who i…

It's simpler than that. It's just fraud. Don't promise something you're not sure you can deliver. If we don't call this fraud what stops bad actors from just lying to you to get you to buy in?

Only promise what you can deliver.

Re: When “free forever” means “free for the next 4 months”

#205

Post by sethammons »

_Algernon_ wrote: post #200
bryanrasmussen wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

if you had read some of the previous thread you might have picked up on the subtle distinction that some of the people being dinged for saying Forever probably meant forever when they said it but then ran up against reality. True if you say forever you should be held to it, on the other hand if someone says forever to you you should hopefully be clever enough to realize they can't do it because forever is unknowable.…

You should be able to trust a contract to mean what is written. It is not my responsibility to ensure that the company is able to hold their end of the bargain. If they at a later point find themselves unable to hold their end of the bargain, they should face consequences for breach of contract / false advertising and those consequences should be greater than the expected gain from walking back on the contract. Other…

IANAL, but for a contract to be legal, at least in the US, it requires consideration from both sides, which means both sides have to give up something. What consideration is given from the free user?

Re: When “free forever” means “free for the next 4 months”

#206

Post by Garvi »

differentView wrote: post #143

It's fraud.

Textbook fraud, yes. But it's a tool that also the big players with deep pockets would like to continue using. People look the other way, because the alternative is admitting, that there is a serious corrup.. lobbying problem.

A realistic long term solution, so we can stop worrying, would be another rebranding. Instead of "legal fraud" we should start calling it "clever scheme" and instantly feel better about the situation.

Re: When “free forever” means “free for the next 4 months”

#207

Post by mrtksn »

taffronaut wrote: post #188

For 25 years, Image Line have been shipping the FLStudio DAW as a one-off purchase with free lifetime updates, and since I've been receiving those updates for a significant chunk of those 25 years since I bought the Producer Edition, it seems pretty sustainable. In their words "Why? Because we believe you should get the program you paid for, bug-fixed and updated for as long as we develop FL Studio." [1] [1] https://…

One time payment and forever free updates means the product dies when the growth stalls OR they create other services around it and sell those.

It can work for some products and often those turn into freeware once they find a subscription or consumables for which the users are eager to pay for.

Re: When “free forever” means “free for the next 4 months”

#208

Post by karaterobot »

stanmancan wrote: post #5
jxf wrote: post #2

This blog post is from the "never let a competitor's mistake go unnoticed" school of thought.

Not sure I totally agree. Capitalizing on a competitors mistake is kind of slimy; calling out their poor business practices is not. Users will invest their time and resources into using your product based on the promise that it’s free forever. Changing your mind later puts the burden on them to figure out how to move forward. Even if I was a free user and I was considering a paid plan that type of dishonesty would ma…

> Capitalizing on a competitors mistake is kind of slimy; calling out their poor business practices is not.

Agreed, except I can't find any examples of them calling out good business practices by their competitor, so I have to question whether it may be kind of slimy and disingenuous after all.

Re: When “free forever” means “free for the next 4 months”

#209

Post by ziml77 »

pikdum wrote: post #73

If a company gets rid of my free forever plan with them, there is a 0% chance that they're getting any money or positive word of mouth from me in the future. It's incredibly scummy behavior. If you're not willing to actually offer it forever, just call it a free plan instead of lying about it.

Still a net gain for the company. Getting something from them for free means you are costing them money. And I would bet your word of mouth was also worth negative dollars to them since you're going to be telling people about the free tier.

Re: When “free forever” means “free for the next 4 months”

#210

Post by ohgodplsno »

mrtksn wrote: post #207
taffronaut wrote: post #188

For 25 years, Image Line have been shipping the FLStudio DAW as a one-off purchase with free lifetime updates, and since I've been receiving those updates for a significant chunk of those 25 years since I bought the Producer Edition, it seems pretty sustainable. In their words "Why? Because we believe you should get the program you paid for, bug-fixed and updated for as long as we develop FL Studio." [1] [1] https://…

One time payment and forever free updates means the product dies when the growth stalls OR they create other services around it and sell those. It can work for some products and often those turn into freeware once they find a subscription or consumables for which the users are eager to pay for.

And when the product dies, you know what you still have? Your fully up to date product with the latest updates, until the very last day.

My wallet isn't here to pay for your company's inability to find a market.

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