Sam Altman says era of remote work is over • Hacker News Board

Re: Sam Altman says era of remote work is over

#201

Post by rchaud » Sat, May 06, 2023, 2:52 PM UTC

JohnFen wrote: post #73

AnthonyMouse wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is why nature invented subletting. Getting 80% of what you're paying for space you don't need is much better than getting 0%. Then you get to claim a big cost reduction this year and a big cost reduction when the lease expires and you can dump the unneeded space entirely.

They investigated this, but it was impossible to find anyone who wanted the space. Everyone was working at home. Nobody needed office space.

Where is Softbank and WeWork when you need them? /s

Re: Sam Altman says era of remote work is over

#202

Post by frumper » Sat, May 06, 2023, 2:56 PM UTC

rcme wrote: post #192

clnq wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are remote-first companies that have 24/7 channels for anyone to ask questions and discuss things with seniors. There are office-first companies with poor training culture. Commitment to training is the deciding factor.

Only part of my learning was from direct question answering. Seeing how senior people worked also helped a lot. E.g. over hearing a design discussion or seeing how they debugged outages was very helpful to me. Those things are very hard to recreate remotely.

Those things are easier to recreate remotely. You can see their actual screen instead of watching on a projector or over their shoulder. Pair programming is even easy to do remotely, there are IDEs that support it. Hop in any kind of voice call and they can talk you through what they’re doing as they’re doing it.

Re: Sam Altman says era of remote work is over

#203

Post by rchaud » Sat, May 06, 2023, 3:00 PM UTC

flangola7 wrote: post #23

ripvanwinkle wrote: post #5

> He further added that OpenAI’s some of the best talents are working remotely. He said, "some of our best people are remote, and we will continue to support it always, so please don't let hating SF stop you from applying to OpenAI! I don't like the open air fentanyl markets either.” The above line seems to contradict the part about '..worst mistake of the tech industry'

Yeah that was particularly gross and unbecoming

Hey, it could be worse! People could be working for Altman's other plaything Worldcoin, collecting retinal scans of the poor and desperate in India, Indonesia and parts of Africa and handing out company scrip as 'compensation'.

https://techcrunch.com/2021/10/21/sam-altmans-worldcoin-want...

Re: Sam Altman says era of remote work is over

#204

Post by frumper » Sat, May 06, 2023, 3:02 PM UTC

flappyeagle wrote: post #163

noobermin wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"victim blaming" your boss, the person hired to have responsibility. You can't make this up.

You can defraud people in positions of power. It’s often more lucrative to do so.

That’s happens and the boss also has the power to fix it. It’s part of that whole responsibility thing. If a majority of a bosses employees are defrauding them, then it sounds like they aren’t good at hiring. If it’s a minority then it’s their job to get rid of those people. It’s shocking to see people complain about coworkers literally not logging in for weeks as why remote doesn’t work. That just means your supervisor’s aren’t doing their job either.

Re: Sam Altman says era of remote work is over

#205

Post by olyjohn » Sat, May 06, 2023, 3:05 PM UTC

gedy wrote: post #158

jochem9 wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point of the article is that for team work with unclearity you are more creative by working in a physical space together. If your work can be done in isolation and doesn't require a team to deal with any uncertainty, then by all means work fully remote. However, if your work is about innovation and collaboration, then it's going to be more effective to spend time together. I think it's telling that you talk about…

> However, if your work is about innovation and collaboration, Please, I've worked on plenty of successful new projects with a distributed team. This in-person bias is largely for people who don't know how to communicate effectively.

It's always more productive to come into the office they say. Then they hire half your team in a country with a time zone that is 12 hours off.

Re: Sam Altman says era of remote work is over

#206

Post by rcme » Sat, May 06, 2023, 3:24 PM UTC

frumper wrote: post #202

rcme wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Only part of my learning was from direct question answering. Seeing how senior people worked also helped a lot. E.g. over hearing a design discussion or seeing how they debugged outages was very helpful to me. Those things are very hard to recreate remotely.

Those things are easier to recreate remotely. You can see their actual screen instead of watching on a projector or over their shoulder. Pair programming is even easy to do remotely, there are IDEs that support it. Hop in any kind of voice call and they can talk you through what they’re doing as they’re doing it.

What I meant is that I learned a lot watching senior members of the team interact. I was like a fly on the wall during their discussions just because I happened to be sitting near their desks when the discussion started. Or when there was an outage, I could overhear how they were debugging the issue.

Also, I've run a remote work company over the pandemic. Maybe you don't feel working remotely is different, but many, many people feel more comfortable approaching someone in person vs. online. In person, you can look at someone, see if they're busy, and, if not, approach to start a conversation. Online, you can never tell if someone is available. There is always an element of rejection when it comes to approaching someone online.

Re: Sam Altman says era of remote work is over

#207

Post by dmitrygr » Sat, May 06, 2023, 3:30 PM UTC

Cool! Another idiot to avoid working for. I like it when bad workplaces and incompetent bosses advertise themselves. Makes my next job search that much easier.

Re: Sam Altman says era of remote work is over

#208

Post by frumper » Sat, May 06, 2023, 3:48 PM UTC

rcme wrote: post #206

frumper wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those things are easier to recreate remotely. You can see their actual screen instead of watching on a projector or over their shoulder. Pair programming is even easy to do remotely, there are IDEs that support it. Hop in any kind of voice call and they can talk you through what they’re doing as they’re doing it.

What I meant is that I learned a lot watching senior members of the team interact. I was like a fly on the wall during their discussions just because I happened to be sitting near their desks when the discussion started. Or when there was an outage, I could overhear how they were debugging the issue. Also, I've run a remote work company over the pandemic. Maybe you don't feel working remotely is different, but many,…

Clearly we differ on how we feel about approaching people. I’d rather get a simple message. When people have to write things they tend to think more about what they want to say. And what you’re describing about the fly on the wall is still simply they aren’t communicating well if they aren’t including coworkers that may only be included for the benefit of learning how to handle situations. One way to handle that is to approach your boss and ask to be included in those situations because you’d like to learn how to respond. Your last line sums up how you feel about remote interactions nicely. I’m sorry, I just don’t find that your feelings about online rejections is a good enough reason to drive into an office.

Re: Sam Altman says era of remote work is over

#209

Post by rcme » Sat, May 06, 2023, 3:59 PM UTC

frumper wrote: post #208

rcme wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What I meant is that I learned a lot watching senior members of the team interact. I was like a fly on the wall during their discussions just because I happened to be sitting near their desks when the discussion started. Or when there was an outage, I could overhear how they were debugging the issue. Also, I've run a remote work company over the pandemic. Maybe you don't feel working remotely is different, but many,…

Clearly we differ on how we feel about approaching people. I’d rather get a simple message. When people have to write things they tend to think more about what they want to say. And what you’re describing about the fly on the wall is still simply they aren’t communicating well if they aren’t including coworkers that may only be included for the benefit of learning how to handle situations. One way to handle that is t…

> And what you’re describing about the fly on the wall is still simply they aren’t communicating well if they aren’t including coworkers that may only be included for the benefit of learning how to handle situations. One way to handle that is to approach your boss and ask to be included in those situations because you’d like to learn how to respond.

That's kind of the point though. When you're together, you don't need to think about how to include others in the discussion or talk to your manager. It all happens organically.

> I’m sorry, I just don’t find that your feelings about online rejections is a good enough reason to drive into an office.

Again, this is not my personal feeling. I ran a video conferencing company that served hundreds of thousands of people over the pandemic. I'm telling you the feedback we got from our users. So, you might not be willing to drive to an office for my feelings. But if you're not willing to drive to an office for the majority of your team's feelings, you might just be an asshole?

Re: Sam Altman says era of remote work is over

#210

Post by proper_elb » Sat, May 06, 2023, 4:03 PM UTC

flappyeagle wrote: post #194

proper_elb wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Obviously the "indirect" part of the post you are responding to applies. Your last sentence seems to indicate that you know more than us - if so, enlighten us please about the incentive situation of Mr. Altman. (Whose products I value quite a lot, I will say)

https://www.cnbc.com/2023/03/24/openai-ceo-sam-altman-didnt-... This is public information.

Yes (did not doubt that), but this is of course only one part of the puzzle. Remember that the assumption of the post you responded too suggested incentives tied to real estate (stock in real estate sector might already be enough), and not about salary/stock in OpenAI. What about other engagements, promises made and so on? Has he declared that incentive-wise there is nothing else than OpenAI going on for him?