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TikTok’s algorithm keeps pushing suicide to vulnerable kids

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Re: TikTok’s algorithm keeps pushing suicide to vulnerable kids

#201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We're talking about children here. Their decision-making skills and understanding of consequences is by nature impaired (compared to the typical adult).

if their parents give them heroin, will we turn blind eye?

Upvoted because I see your point, although I think you’re being too harsh.

I don’t have kids, but surely you see the design flaw at play here:

I’d want to give my future kid a phone so I may connect with them at will, but at the same time a phone allows others to connect with them (giving them addictive content to serve ads for example)

An iPhone has pretty good parental controls, but when it’s time for the child to connect with their peers, the same place they connect with peers is the same place designed to exploit them, with little to no alternative.

It’s like we’ve transported our 11 year olds into digital pool halls where parent supervision is banned and the pool hall owner keeps serving them drinks

I won’t be giving my future child a phone before 13 but I have no illusions that they’ll be normal peer after not having the same access to such things.

It’s like the McDonald’s play pens all over again, but worse!

Re: TikTok’s algorithm keeps pushing suicide to vulnerable kids

#202
post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

if their parents give them heroin, will we turn blind eye?

Upvoted because I see your point, although I think you’re being too harsh. I don’t have kids, but surely you see the design flaw at play here: I’d want to give my future kid a phone so I may connect with them at will, but at the same time a phone allows others to connect with them (giving them addictive content to serve ads for example) An iPhone has pretty good parental controls, but when it’s time for the child to…

> An iPhone has pretty good parental controls, but when it’s time for the child to connect with their peers, the same place they connect with peers is the same place designed to exploit them, with little to no alternative.

try to use it and you will see how bad it actually is, reinstalling an app removes its timeout, any kid almost trivially goes around it, you have to not forget to block the web versions of the apps, there is +1 minute, there is issue with whatsapp links etc

my daughter(12) also just asks for 15 mins extra youtube, then she just looks at my fingerprints on the phone to guess the screentime code, so i have to wipe my fingerprints like i am in a james bond movie (changed the screentime code like 3 times until i figured out what is happening)

i am trying to teach her self control and also to monitor her feed like a hawk and be super critical of what she watches

also once a week we go over all the feeds and try to teach the algorithms to show better things (like/follow some science/code youtubers, block toxic ones, watch few videos etc)

i also pay for everything i can so she doesnt see ads (including having pi-hole and adblockers)

Re: TikTok’s algorithm keeps pushing suicide to vulnerable kids

#203
post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Allowing it on your platform, (and it applies to Everyone not just tiktok) Isn't right. Negligently letting it be pushed onto people is much worse. Imagine if facebook were doing the same thing now, there would me massive uproar.

Yeah random acts of censorship for "good of the people", what can go bad /s by all means put a content warning or maybe a suicide prevention hotline or other help but I'm tired of clowns trying to solve any problem with "bad content" with censorship. Like that didn't misfire enough times in history...

> I'm tired of clowns trying to solve any problem with "bad content" with censorship.

No not "random" but systematic, targeted and effective "censorship"

When a news corp chooses to not run a news story for the third day in a row, is that censorship?

When I am pissed off at a customer services agent, and instead of shouting "GET FUCKED YOU USELESS SHIT" is that censorship?

When I am walking along the road and see a very sexy person, and I _don't_ shout out "HEY THERE SEXY, I'D LIKE TO FUCK/GET FUCKED BY YOU!" is that censorship?

A well ordered society requires rules. Those rules need to be clear, and generated by consensus.

When you negligently and repeatedly show footage to a vulnerable person designed to deliberately illicit harm, that is not what a well ordered and productive society allows.

But then the US is not a well ordered society, so do what you want kid.

Re: TikTok’s algorithm keeps pushing suicide to vulnerable kids

#204
post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah random acts of censorship for "good of the people", what can go bad /s by all means put a content warning or maybe a suicide prevention hotline or other help but I'm tired of clowns trying to solve any problem with "bad content" with censorship. Like that didn't misfire enough times in history...

> I'm tired of clowns trying to solve any problem with "bad content" with censorship. No not "random" but systematic, targeted and effective "censorship" When a news corp chooses to not run a news story for the third day in a row, is that censorship? When I am pissed off at a customer services agent, and instead of shouting "GET FUCKED YOU USELESS SHIT" is that censorship? When I am walking along the road and see a v…

> When a news corp chooses to not run a news story for the third day in a row, is that censorship?

It can be. If it were a news story that made a company or a government look bad and the news corp was bribed or pressured to kill the story and stop talking about it, that's absolutely censorship.

> When I am pissed off at a customer services agent, and instead of shouting "GET FUCKED YOU USELESS SHIT" is that censorship? When I am walking along the road and see a very sexy person, and I _don't_ shout out "HEY THERE SEXY, I'D LIKE TO FUCK/GET FUCKED BY YOU!" is that censorship?

That first one's not a full sentence, but if both cases are about self-censorship then you should know that's a very real thing and often it's a good thing. Especially when the decision on what gets censored is based on your own thoughts and feelings more than external factors. Being able to choose for yourself what to say or not say is a freedom, not a problem. Self-censorship isn't always ideal though (Self-censorship as a result of chilling effects for example).

> When you negligently and repeatedly show footage to a vulnerable person designed to deliberately illicit harm, that is not what a well ordered and productive society allows.

When something has already been judged as negligent it's automatically something a well ordered and productive society wouldn't allow. I'm not sure that's the case here though. If they just didn't care enough to make sure their algorithm wasn't doing more harm than good then maybe it would be negligence. If they are intentionally trying to harm people that would be something else.

However the content is being used/misused I'm not sure that I agree that the content was designed to deliberately illicit harm. I'd bet that most of these types of videos are created by suicidal people expressing their own feelings and looking to share them with others who are going through similar trials. I think there should be freedom for people who are struggling with mental health to participate in a community of others and to express themselves in memes and tiny videos.

I also think people should have the freedom to end their own lives if they choose to. Having places online where people can talk and share information about that subject is perfectly reasonable. Although I think there are children for whom suicide might be a legitimate option, even if most others would disagree not everything online needs to be appropriate for children, let alone suicidal children.

The problem with tiktoc isn't that the content exists, it's that it's being heavily promoted to children. This is the same problem with youtube. The algorithms push more narrow and extreme views without considering anything except their profits (unless you're one of the people who think tiktoc is intentionally trying to kill off Americans one suicidal teenager at a time in which case it'd not just be monetary considerations driving their choices). It would be so much better if algorithms were designed to present a more balanced view of things so that even if someone were thinking about suicide and interested in hearing perspectives on the subject they didn't only get the most extreme videos saying it's a great solution.

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