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Coinbase CEO: we're preparing to go to court with the U.S. SEC

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Re: Coinbase CEO: we're preparing to go to court with the U.S. SEC

#201

Post by vkou »

latchkey wrote: post #167
ahahahahah wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If what you are doing requires registering with the SEC for it to be legal, and there's no way to register what you are doing with the SEC, then that means that it is illegal to do what you are doing (like how could you think that possibly means you are free to go do that thing?).

If there is no way to register with the SEC to run a securities brokerage, exchange, and clearing house, then what's the point of the SEC again?

There's no way to register these securities with the SEC, because their creators aren't interested in being in compliance with securities laws. It would require more transparency and accountability than they would like.

As a result, the SEC does not allow anyone to run an exchange that trades those illegal securities.

Being a registered security isn't hard, all sorts of stupid and speculative instruments get registered. If your shitcoin isn't able to get registered, the fault is with it, not the SEC. If your exchange isn't allowed to trade that shitcoin, the fault is with the coin, not the SEC. It's not the SEC's job to provide guidance on how to run an exchange that trades in unregistered securities. The only guidance it should provide in answer to that query is 'You can't.'

Re: Coinbase CEO: we're preparing to go to court with the U.S. SEC

#202

Post by sebzim4500 »

prottog wrote: post #23
sebzim4500 wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of people buy houses thinking they will increase in value. Good to know they've all been doing securities fraud.

If there was a startup called Homebase that was in the business of serving as an exchange where people could trade houses, the SEC might be interested ;-)

Last time this was discussed here people were suggesting that BTC was not a security but BCH was, despite being basically the same thing, and certainly both being exchanged on Coinbase.

Re: Coinbase CEO: we're preparing to go to court with the U.S. SEC

#203

Post by sebzim4500 »

arcticbull wrote: post #36
sebzim4500 wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of people buy houses thinking they will increase in value. Good to know they've all been doing securities fraud.

You can google this stuff you know? Real estate does not fall under the securities umbrella. This is well established legal precedent, covered under Howey, the Securities Act, the Securities Exchange Act subsequent rulings. Real estate fails the Howey test because there is no common enterprise. https://www.compliancebuilding.com/2010/11/04/what-is-a-secu...

Where's the common enterprise for BTC (or BCH, if you are one of those people who somehow thinks that BCH is a security but BTC isn't)?

Re: Coinbase CEO: we're preparing to go to court with the U.S. SEC

#204

Post by arcticbull »

sebzim4500 wrote: post #203
arcticbull wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can google this stuff you know? Real estate does not fall under the securities umbrella. This is well established legal precedent, covered under Howey, the Securities Act, the Securities Exchange Act subsequent rulings. Real estate fails the Howey test because there is no common enterprise. https://www.compliancebuilding.com/2010/11/04/what-is-a-secu...

Where's the common enterprise for BTC (or BCH, if you are one of those people who somehow thinks that BCH is a security but BTC isn't)?

It's covered here [1].

I believe the common enterprise exists no matter which coin, but with Bitcoin there was never an investment of money in its launch. Don't quote me on that though. I know the delta has to do with initial coin distribution.

[1] https://www.sec.gov/files/dlt-framework.pdf

Re: Coinbase CEO: we're preparing to go to court with the U.S. SEC

#205

Post by tehlike »

888666 wrote: post #62
tehlike wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why did sec need anything to say when it was clear the product was a security from the beginning?

If it's so clear, and people disagree, wouldn't it be common sense to just say it? Declining to comment makes no sense here.

Isn't howey test fairly clear as to what it is?

Re: Coinbase CEO: we're preparing to go to court with the U.S. SEC

#206

Post by MacsHeadroom »

paulddraper wrote: post #176
vkou wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why not link to the actual SEC guidance, instead of an op-ed by a crypto CEO that is reading what she wants [1] to read from it? https://www.sec.gov/files/dlt-framework.pdf It's only a few pages, and nothing in it indicates that decentralization is sufficient as an excluding criterion. > Although no one of the following characteristics of use or consumption is necessarily determinative , the stronger their presence,…

> most crypto is ridiculously centralized That is true. IMO Bitcoin is the only crypto is that is legitimately decentralized; no single governing organization.

It's not the only one. Dogecoin, for example. I do not mean to defend Dogecoin or lend it any legitimacy. But it clearly does not meet the criteria for a security as it was simply a very early fork of Bitcoin where some zeros were added and "Bit" was replaced with "Doge."

Re: Coinbase CEO: we're preparing to go to court with the U.S. SEC

#207

Post by landoftheice »

888666 wrote: post #62
tehlike wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why did sec need anything to say when it was clear the product was a security from the beginning?

If it's so clear, and people disagree, wouldn't it be common sense to just say it? Declining to comment makes no sense here.

[dead]

Re: Coinbase CEO: we're preparing to go to court with the U.S. SEC

#208

Post by landoftheice »

tehlike wrote: post #205
888666 wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it's so clear, and people disagree, wouldn't it be common sense to just say it? Declining to comment makes no sense here.

Isn't howey test fairly clear as to what it is?

[dead]

Re: Coinbase CEO: we're preparing to go to court with the U.S. SEC

#209

Post by humanizersequel »

tehlike wrote: post #200
humanizersequel wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have read this article, and to the best of my recollection it contains zero discussion of Coinbase's Earn product.

Then read also this: https://archive.ph/KueXO PArt of Coinbase earn is defi yield(aka lending), part of it is crypto staking. I also suggest you to read howey yest and make your own conclusions.

>PArt of Coinbase earn is defi yield(aka lending), part of it is crypto staking.

Wrong. Nothing currently implemented in Coinbase Earn could be reasonably considered "lending". The article you linked is 2 years old and about Coinbase's prospective "Lend" product — which, as I understand it, never launched, perhaps because of a Wells notice submitted in 2021. This statement is about the one they've received more recently "regarding an unspecified portion of our listed digital assets, our staking service Coinbase Earn, Coinbase Prime, and Coinbase Wallet":

https://www.coinbase.com/blog/we-asked-the-sec-for-reasonabl...

Re: Coinbase CEO: we're preparing to go to court with the U.S. SEC

#210

Post by paulddraper »

MacsHeadroom wrote: post #206
paulddraper wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> most crypto is ridiculously centralized That is true. IMO Bitcoin is the only crypto is that is legitimately decentralized; no single governing organization.

It's not the only one. Dogecoin, for example. I do not mean to defend Dogecoin or lend it any legitimacy. But it clearly does not meet the criteria for a security as it was simply a very early fork of Bitcoin where some zeros were added and "Bit" was replaced with "Doge."

True
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