Entrepreneurs who regret starting businesses • Hacker News Board

Re: Entrepreneurs who regret starting businesses

#201

Post by czbond » Tue, Apr 04, 2023, 4:49 PM UTC

wootland wrote: post #179

s1artibartfast wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To the contrary, the parent post you respnded was talking about what options middle class families have to make it to the upper class. This is a seperate question than what option middle class familes have to get to an Andreesen BBQ. Maybe it is just a confusion over the definition of "multi generational wealth". Many if not most people consider getting a house, inheretence, or small business "multi generational weal…

I think multi generational wealth would mean that people are a member of the capital class and not the labor class (i.e. they don't have to work for a living). Those are the people who go on to be serial entrepreneurs, because, why not? Nothing to lose other than effort. Anyone else is taking on risk of becoming destitute if they repeatedly try to start businesses. Even a small business can drain a million dollars ve…

Disagree. You're not mentioning something just as important, and even more powerful than work. Compounding

Re: Entrepreneurs who regret starting businesses

#202

Post by Frondo » Tue, Apr 04, 2023, 4:49 PM UTC

Axsuul wrote: post #85

randlet wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you deal with the bus factor as a B2B? I lost a few larger contracts because customers would not risk making a one person business a core part of their workflow.

I’m in a similar situation and this has not been an issue, at all.

Also in a similar situation now (well, in the B2B space, with ~20 corporate customers around the country) and the times it's come up, people have been more concerned to see a business continuity plan than a big office full of people who can take over.

You can find lots of examples for a BCP on any search engine, and in my experience so far it's more important to show that you've thought about it and at least have a plan in place to take care of business continuity, should something happen to you, in the future.

Another thing to keep in mind is, even if you had staff who could keep a platform going, until you're running quite a large operation, even finding someone who'd want to take over should something happen to you is going to be difficult. I'm eyeing a buyout by a large competitor in the distant future for that, because this is a really niche space and requires a lot of technical knowledge and people skills.

Re: Entrepreneurs who regret starting businesses

#203

Post by s1artibartfast » Tue, Apr 04, 2023, 4:51 PM UTC

wootland wrote: post #179

s1artibartfast wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To the contrary, the parent post you respnded was talking about what options middle class families have to make it to the upper class. This is a seperate question than what option middle class familes have to get to an Andreesen BBQ. Maybe it is just a confusion over the definition of "multi generational wealth". Many if not most people consider getting a house, inheretence, or small business "multi generational weal…

I think multi generational wealth would mean that people are a member of the capital class and not the labor class (i.e. they don't have to work for a living). Those are the people who go on to be serial entrepreneurs, because, why not? Nothing to lose other than effort. Anyone else is taking on risk of becoming destitute if they repeatedly try to start businesses. Even a small business can drain a million dollars ve…

I don't think you are using a conventional definition of upper class, or that it is interchangeable with capital class. I also don't think these are the definitions for the Post you were responding to.

That said, I agree eight figures is about the right number for when a family would not have to work assuming that the capital assets are managed appropriately.

I think high value labor is the main path between lower class and middle class. High value labor plus smart investment of surplus capital gets families from middle class to high class. The path from high class to Capital class, as you call it is, primarily return on Capital management.

To get from Capital class to Kennedy class requires a significant windfall or luck, as you would expect for tail end of a Pareto distribution.

Re: Entrepreneurs who regret starting businesses

#204

Post by anonymouskimmer » Tue, Apr 04, 2023, 4:54 PM UTC

treis wrote: post #133

czbond wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Realize the game you and your family are playing. Middle class have 3 paths out: - Single shot entrepreneurship - Repeated entrepreneurship with a job (no free nights or weekends) - Long term, multi generational wealth building over the course of 40-100 years with a mixture of stable career or above A wealthy family did the above but a generation or two before you or yours & someone else is reaping the benefit. Don't…

That's not true. A large majority of middle class kid can rely on their parents support until their 30s. I personally know several shitheads doing that and they're doing so because they're lazy. Not because they're working hard on some start up.

Sure, but that safety net runs out. And once it runs out with nothing established beyond it, the "shithead" is SOL.

Re: Entrepreneurs who regret starting businesses

#205

Post by anonymouskimmer » Tue, Apr 04, 2023, 4:58 PM UTC

ameister14 wrote: post #171

wootland wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not how most generational wealth was created. From mobsters that went "legit" (Bronfmans, Kennedys...) to people who build their fortunes off war profiteering, slavery, genocide, child labor... They weren't grinding away for 40-100 years at some labor job. They exploited people, captured the gains, then used the power law to stay on the top.

That doesn't describe most generational wealth. A family house is generational wealth. Most people who at age 65-75 are worth over $1 million dollars didn't get there by using the power of law to stay on top or profiteering from slavery or genocide. That's insane.

> didn't get there by using the power of law

NIMBYism is the power of law. Mortgage interest deduction is the power of law. Without either, that million dollars of wealth, much of it in the home, would be a lot less.

Re: Entrepreneurs who regret starting businesses

#206

Post by anonymouskimmer » Tue, Apr 04, 2023, 4:59 PM UTC

JamesBarney wrote: post #176

FlyingSnake wrote: post #8

Entrepreneurship is like one of those carnival games where you throw darts or something. Middle class kids can afford one throw. Most miss. A few hit the target and get a small prize. A very few hit the center bullseye and get a bigger prize. Rags to riches! The American Dream lives on. Rich kids can afford many throws. If they want to, they can try over and over and over again until they hit something and feel good…

If you're a dev living moderately in a reasonable cost of living city you can afford to go all in on a startup every few years without any familial income or wealth.

This describes a member of the unlanded gentry class, not the middle class.

Re: Entrepreneurs who regret starting businesses

#207

Post by anonymouskimmer » Tue, Apr 04, 2023, 5:02 PM UTC

ClumsyPilot wrote: post #182

Dig1t wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve seen this analogy repeatedly many times and it’s becoming a meme. I think this is wrong and that it trivializes people’s accomplishments and hard work as nothing but random chance. There are tons of examples of entrepreneurs who came from nothing that spent long periods of time living with their parents and eating ramen, grinding until they finally made it.

And for every one of those, there are 10 who did not. Random chance is a dominant factor in life, in some walks of like it's The Dominant Factor. Look at Olympic champions, they all work hard but for every athlete that succeeds, there are 100 that worked just as hard and did not. If you were not randomly allocated the right genes, your chance of winning the Olympics is 0% no matter how hard you work. Or look at trade…

> If you were not randomly allocated the right genes, your chance of winning the Olympics is 0% no matter how hard you work

Tonya Harding would like a word with you.

More seriously, luck beyond can help beyond genetics. Such as having local access to a world-class trainer. Or changes to the rules of a competition (I have heard that Simone Biles' 10s are partly possible because of changes in scoring which value her skillset more than they did previously).

Re: Entrepreneurs who regret starting businesses

#208

Post by czbond » Tue, Apr 04, 2023, 5:15 PM UTC

ClumsyPilot wrote: post #180

czbond wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can always afford to continue - just with your after hours work job nights and weekends. In my experience, the stress and mental aspects are the hardest because each has to decide what to give up for potentially nothing in return.

> You can always afford to continue - just with your after hours work job nights and weekends. I don't like pointing out 'privilege', but this is it. Many of us have to spend weekends and evenings looking after kids, or ill parents. Family responsibilities in other words. Some of us have jobs that demand more than standard 9/5. And some have to work a second job to make ends meet.

What you pointed out is adults have responsibilities. We all have responsibilities to work around to follow your goals and dreams.

Not having responsibilities is not a sign of privilege - but just a sign of a different phase of life. So that means one has to be tactical to pick the opportunity that matches what effort & energy one can put towards that opportunity.

Re: Entrepreneurs who regret starting businesses

#209

Post by jarym » Tue, Apr 04, 2023, 5:19 PM UTC

coldtea wrote: post #83

boplicity wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Middle class kids can afford one throw. Gotta disagree with this. As someone who grew up middle class, I was fortunate, in a lot of ways, to also learn to be prudent with money. I started bootstrapping microbusinesses with almost no monetary investment. This eventually allowed me to support myself (on a very low budget), and then, later, on a slightly larger budget. Eventually, one of these businesses became succes…

> Gotta disagree with this. As someone who grew up middle class, I was fortunate, in a lot of ways, to also learn to be prudent with money. I started bootstrapping microbusinesses with almost no monetary investment. This eventually allowed me to support myself (on a very low budget), and then, later, on a slightly larger budget. Eventually, one of these businesses became successful enough to support a family comforta…

... aggregate outcomes will be the sum of random individual outcomes?

Re: Entrepreneurs who regret starting businesses

#210

Post by mrangle » Tue, Apr 04, 2023, 5:20 PM UTC

coldtea wrote: post #83

boplicity wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Middle class kids can afford one throw. Gotta disagree with this. As someone who grew up middle class, I was fortunate, in a lot of ways, to also learn to be prudent with money. I started bootstrapping microbusinesses with almost no monetary investment. This eventually allowed me to support myself (on a very low budget), and then, later, on a slightly larger budget. Eventually, one of these businesses became succes…

> Gotta disagree with this. As someone who grew up middle class, I was fortunate, in a lot of ways, to also learn to be prudent with money. I started bootstrapping microbusinesses with almost no monetary investment. This eventually allowed me to support myself (on a very low budget), and then, later, on a slightly larger budget. Eventually, one of these businesses became successful enough to support a family comforta…

The larger red flag is the language typical of marketers combined with zero specificity. "Bootstrap microbusinesses, no monetary investment" followed by "success". All very unlikely, especially in plural. If true, he wouldn't have to reveal an exact business model. But detailing the type of business (ie: service or product) and / or sector would have lent credibility.

I can't think of a truly successful business, for an adult, that didn't require money to start. Money being a bare minimum.