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Why, oh why, do those nutheads use vi?

viemu.com

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Re: Why, oh why, do those nutheads use vi?

#201

Post by weaksauce »

weaksauce wrote: post #116
lftl wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there no suitable vim autocomplete script for Objective-C?

How well does the clang autocomplete work? http://www.vim.org/scripts/script.php?script_id=3302

Cannot edit my comment but it works pretty well actually.

see:

http://imgur.com/6HQ13

quick lookup and a quick find as you type function. I like that if you press delete it will lookup the scope prior. so like if you type "addobj" and then delete a few times to "add" it will show you all the add commands again. Probably standard fare but not all implementations get this right.

Install was painless and I was able to map the invocation to ctrl-space, probably a better way to do it but I did it in a few seconds without looking anything up:

inoremap

Re: Why, oh why, do those nutheads use vi?

#202

Post by cageface »

burke wrote: post #81
metaobject wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't ever start using emacs. After you do, any text editor that you are forced to use that doesn't have emacs key bindings will give you fits and make you cry. Learning emacs is your standard process of enlightenment and elation followed by a lifetime of disappointment. Think about how you'd feel if you ate the best meal of your life at age 13, and the restaurant where you ate it went out of business the next day. Y…

As someone who used emacs for five years before switching to vim, my personal experience was that the top-level comment is more true than this one.

The deciding factor for me is that I can use the same basic Emacs keybindings in any other text entry widget, so my most central muscle memory translates to the shell, XCode, Firefox etc.

Vi/Vim is off in its own weird universe.

Re: Why, oh why, do those nutheads use vi?

#203

Post by genbattle »

tomkarlo wrote: post #187
staunch wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Easier for a beginner ≠ better for an expert.

The goal of a new text editor shouldn't be to make things better for people who are already experts on an existing platform. It should be to make it better for beginners on the new editor (because initially, everyone is) and better for them when they become experts. Saying "I'm an expert at vi, and other editors don't work as well for me" is a pretty meaningless statement. Of course they don't. It's like saying "I sp…

I think this is a case of not being able to have your cake and eat it too; you can make something easier to use, but it usually comes as a compromise to more expert users because you have to simplify the interface, remove functionality, reduce configuration options, etc. Conversely, adding more power will usually mean increasing the difficulty for beginners; if you require that users are comfortable with using a semi-programming language to write configuration files, you get more options and more power than you could via a simple and straightforward gui.

In the end I don't think either approach is better, just different. To address your first statement, I think editors can either choose to become better for experts in a particular domain, or they can choose to be easier to learn for beginners, or some compromise between the two. I have yet to see an application that manages to do both.

I agree that someone's subjective opinion of editors other than the one(s) they use is not very useful, but i don't think that was the point of the post you replied to. He was simply stating what I stated above; an app that is good for a beginner is not necessarily the best for an expert, and in the end you have to find some compromise between the two.

EDIT: For the record, I think vim has a pretty good learning curve; vimtutor is great, and you only really need to know the most basic parts of modal switching for gvim to be used like any other text editor. Once you gain some mastery of things like movement command, macros, markers, etc. you can really start to accelerate your workflow. I'm not one of those people that started using hjkl from day one.

Re: Why, oh why, do those nutheads use vi?

#204

Post by no-espam »

Vim is great but learning requires a good investment of time. If somebody tells you, you can be as productive as with your current editor in a few weeks, don't believe it. If all you need is notepad or gEdit, Vim is not worth the debt. Spend your time learning another language or create an open source project.

I live in a terminal so Vim is my weapon of choice. I tried and bought a license for Sublime 2, which is awesome n vintage mode, but Sublime is not Vim.

Re: Why, oh why, do those nutheads use vi?

#205

Post by anthonyb »

anthonyb wrote: post #141
wahnfrieden wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe you didn't use Vim with much depth? I know plenty of people who claim to use it but just stay in insert-mode all the time, don't use text-objects, etc. It doesn't really count if you actively avoid most things that make vim unique.

Maybe you shouldn't assume that people are morons? --- Clarification, since I'm getting downvoted for that: Go look at the guy's profile, and his blog. He's an experienced dev, using vim for "6 years", and he's been on HN for three, has racked up a bunch of karma, blah, blah, blah. I'm pretty sure he got past the "use vim as notepad" stage. Assuming that he hasn't is assuming that he's a moron, and contributes nothin…

Interesting; This comment has been voted up and down since I posted it, but nobody's yet answered with something that makes vim more annoying than emacs (or vice versa).

Re: Why, oh why, do those nutheads use vi?

#206

Post by burke »

cageface wrote: post #202
burke wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone who used emacs for five years before switching to vim, my personal experience was that the top-level comment is more true than this one.

The deciding factor for me is that I can use the same basic Emacs keybindings in any other text entry widget, so my most central muscle memory translates to the shell, XCode, Firefox etc. Vi/Vim is off in its own weird universe.

I set up most of the emacs/OS X bindings in insert mode as well, and slowly migrated away from them toward more use of vim features. It eased the transition, and now I don't really feel any mismatch between the two.

Re: Why, oh why, do those nutheads use vi?

#207

Post by kamaal »

kahawe wrote: post #119
jerf wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Why do all articles about how wonderful vi is end with condescension?" Because one way to get someone over the initial learning hump is to "encourage" them by challenging their manhood. Same principle behind a boot camp sergeant telling every single incoming group that they are the worst bunch of nambypamby girliemen he's ever seen and he's been in this army for 25 years and that he will consider it a personal failu…

Comparing vi to an IDE is like comparing a screwdriver to a fully automated car assembly line... it is completely beside the point and they each have their purpose and downsides.

And comparing vi and IDE's with Emacs is like comparing car assembling tools with self cloning cars.

Re: Why, oh why, do those nutheads use vi?

#208

Post by platz »

davvid wrote: post #192

If you use vim then I highly recommend mapping spacebar to page-down and shift-spacebar to page-up. This key is kinda useless otherwise and super-helpful afterwards. It is also the largest key on your keyboard. usability++ nmap nmap vmap vmap

Im a fan of using the spacebar as my leader key.

Re: Why, oh why, do those nutheads use vi?

#209

Post by platz »

alimbada wrote: post #37

I'd love to use ViEmu or VsVim, but it'd confuse the hell out of my team members if we ever have to pair up. And then I'd be lumped with trying to explain what it is to them when they barely even know what Unix is...

Im waiting for this day to come for me, now.
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