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Alibaba breaks itself up in six

economist.com

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Re: Alibaba breaks itself up in six

#201

Post by KerryJones »

carschno wrote: post #180
RobotToaster wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Given China's, (and to some extent, Asia's), obsession with face, his actions do all seem pretty clueless. I wonder, could it all be part of some performance? The fact that they let Ali "voluntarily" restructure, and save face from having it be enforced, is interesting on it's own. I'm not really sure what to make of it.

Genuine question: is there any evidence that "Asia's obsession with face" has actual impact on daily business, or is it really just a cliché?

Jack Ma is part of the evidence -- there are others who have said the same thing. There are many examples of less notoriety of people saying bad things about CCP and then "disappearing" (many government officials).

Re: Alibaba breaks itself up in six

#202

Post by kelipso »

namdnay wrote: post #117
bioemerl wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you want until they're the only player you're way way too late and huge damage has already been done.

Apple's phone amrket share is 20%, one point above Samsung. They're no way near a monopoly

Apple's US phone market share is 50% and definitely way higher in the high end phone market share.

Re: Alibaba breaks itself up in six

#203

Post by mynameisvlad »

bioemerl wrote: post #197
mynameisvlad wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That both doesn’t answer my question nor is it actually true. In fact, splits almost always happen when it’s actually a monopoly not some vague hand-wavy goal-shifting “monopolistic behaviors”.

Splits in general rarely if ever happen at all, let alone when they should. Our antitrust over the last few years is crazy lacking. Wouldn't you want the burst of innovation and competition before the five to ten years of status quo monopoly if you wait to act?

Cute strawman.

That would also extend to practically every company out there unless we can somehow accurately predict the future.

Re: Alibaba breaks itself up in six

#204

Post by s1artibartfast »

flangola7 wrote: post #151
midasuni wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Americans tend to equate wealth with ability and set aside luck, everyone is a temporarily embarrassed millionaire. Musk certainly used to have decent business accuumin - he hit it big several times, that’s not just luck. From all accounts he’s a half decent engineer too, which is rare in many CEO levels. However his behaviour over the last 3 years has been very surprising. He seems to be less interested in the tech…

I seriously doubt his engineering abilities, but I'll ignore that. One thing he's demonstrated from the beginning is a stark undersupply of emotional intelligence. There are noises that come out of his mouth that my 15yr old would roll her eyes at for being too self-centered and immature.

There's a fine line between lack of emotional intelligence and simply not caring to placate others.

The two are not the same.

It is like calling someone an idiot because they won't do what you want and ignoring what they want.

You have to admit that it may not be a priority for Elon to maintain his reputation with you in your 15 year old

Re: Alibaba breaks itself up in six

#205

Post by kansface »

jihiggins wrote: post #42
poszlem wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I came across a comment that resonated with me and seems relevant in this context, so I saved it. It says: "The arc of communism is long and it leans towards oppressing the fuck out of people. It’s a tendency of all governmental systems. Communism rests most of its power in the hands of government without a moneyed elite to oppose them, so it tends to move to authoritarianism faster and with less resistance."

Maybe from the perspective of the moneyed elite, but in what universe is China breaking up a monopoly an indicator of "authoritarianism"

The US breaks up companies when they abuse their position to unfairly advantage themselves in our market. China just disappeared its most successful businessperson and chopped up his business because he directly criticizing the government.

Re: Alibaba breaks itself up in six

#207

Post by SkyMarshal »

toyg wrote: post #92
SkyMarshal wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also, one of Ma’s last public appearances was at an American conference, maybe TechCrunch but I’m not sure, where he said in an on stage interview something to the effect of, “I’m not afraid of the CCP”, in relation to recent revelations he was a CCP member. Then he got disappeared shortly after. He was really clueless about what kind of org he was dealing with.

One doesn't need to be clueless in order to lose a power struggle. He might have been betrayed, he might have overestimated the resources he could fully count on, he might have simply been backing a faction in the party that ended up losing. Xi Jinping went as far as kicking out of the public congress a previous president, which was unprecedented; who knows what else he's capable of.

But that’s the problem - the risk of losing a power struggle in a democracy with rule of law, separation of powers, an independent court system, and regular elections is vastly different from the risks of losing a power struggle in the CCP, which controls all branches of government, law enforcement, and the military and is accountable to no one.

The former has a limited downside, the latter unlimited. Whatever the Central Committee decides happens to you is law with no recourse - execution, disappearing and re-education, etc. - and law enforcement and the courts are just there to justify it after the fact.

It’s clueless to publicly mouth off about the CCP if you’re a high-profile influential Chinese billionaire and therefore a potential threat to the current ruling faction, or some future ruling faction when there’s turnover. Discretion is definitely the better part of valor there.

Re: Alibaba breaks itself up in six

#208

Post by SkyMarshal »

esafak wrote: post #200
re-thc wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Correct, he is/was backed by a different faction. Most startups of that era are.

Which faction? I am curious.

From what I’ve both read and experienced on a brief trip to Shanghai, it seems there are two main factions - the Beijing faction and Shanghai faction. The latter is more capitalist and chill, the former more authoritarian. It’s probably more complicated though, with multiple sub factions around different leaders in the CCP. Maybe someone with deeper knowledge can elaborate.

Re: Alibaba breaks itself up in six

#209

Post by voisin »

lanternfish wrote: post #39
voisin wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So people are hoping that now the worst of it is done What is the basis of this hope?

Presumably because Alibaba - the challenger that started this crackdown - is now slain. On a political level, there are only so many Chinese companies with enough power to actually threaten the CCP, and Alibaba is probably enough of an example to keep them in line - further crackdowns are probably unnecessary.

Must be nice for international companies to know that Chinese companies will always be restrained from becoming too large. It’s like they have to fight with one arm tied behind their back - get too big and your own government will cut you up.

Re: Alibaba breaks itself up in six

#210

Post by esafak »

fortuna86 wrote: post #89
poszlem wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I came across a comment that resonated with me and seems relevant in this context, so I saved it. It says: "The arc of communism is long and it leans towards oppressing the fuck out of people. It’s a tendency of all governmental systems. Communism rests most of its power in the hands of government without a moneyed elite to oppose them, so it tends to move to authoritarianism faster and with less resistance."

Another quote: "wealth always consolidates at the top, you can choose private sector or government to do so."

Who, Piketty?
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